Streets closed in Warsaw during NATO summit

And your point is that European police officers are protected any better from unruly protesters ?

123 German police officers were injured in Berlin and 86 people detained during clashes between police and protesters over the redevelopment of a district in the east of the city.

About 3,500 protesters marched through Friedrichshain on Saturday.


Quite common if Obama doesn't have his tela prompters to read off from.
Obama is an embarrassment to say the least.

My favourite part was how the Washignton Post hyped its headline saying "Obama slams Polish democracy" and then scruffy ol' Michnik uses the Polish term zbesztać (to slam, castigate, scold, upbraid) to trasnalte it for his rag. That forced the US Embassy to release the full text of Obama's remarks where only terms such as "express concern" related to Poland's internal disputes.

Another favourite is how the KODerasts thought they would attarct a huge rally of disgruntled losers and chronic PiS-bashers to the dedication of MLK Square and invited Obama to attend. Only a coupla hunderd losers turned up. Michnik and Kijwoski looked silly and mentally bedraggeld up on hat little platform when obama tuirned them down. If they hadn't been blinded by their anti-government hatred adn hysteria, they would have known that far greater things were taking place at the NATO summit whose individual stages had been planned long in advance. Besdies, if Obama had shown up, it would have been a great diplomatic faux pas to publicly side with the host country's government's sworn enemies.

Hilarious wasn't it. And they really think people are daft enough not to see through it. Though to be fair their voters are mostly that daft.

Oh dear, yet again you get caught telling us blatant whoppers. Your embassy did not release the full text, the press office of your president released the full text. Here it is whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/07/08/remarks-president-obama-and-president-duda-poland-after-bilateral

Note how it reads:


So the text was released the same day the comments were made.

The WaPo article which you fail to link to, as it shows you're lying, can be found here: washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/07/09/obama-slammed-polish-democracy-on-friday-heres-how-polish-tv-proved-him-right

Note how it says:


So the article was written the next day. As it makes clear.

Care to explain to us how anything written in newspapers (which are both very selective about their staff choices) after the full text of Obama's speech was released caused your embassy to release something which they didn't release because the people who should have released it had released it?

I'm sure even you know the Embassy is subservient to the President's
Press Office and merely relays communiqués and statemenets rather than creating them, so it's the same text (nitpicking and clutching at straws again -- your speciality!).

Have you read the text? There is no "slamming" nor even "harsh cocnern" as WaPo wrote in the article to slightly tone down its hyped "slamming" headline.

Only concern and encouragement. Obama said: "We've urged all parties to work together to sustain Poland's democratic institutions." But the pathetic losers' clique have shown time and time again they do not want to work together to resolve anything and wish only to sustain themselves on the potlical stage.

Indeed, and appropriate that the leader of the free world should stand up for democracy; something seriously under threat in Poland.

Of course I know, that's how I knew you were lying when you claimed your embassy released the full text. The tiny part of the speech they have quoted makes no mention of what you claim. Have a look pl.usembassy.gov/president_nato/


No, I was just pointing out that your entire post was a lie. The embassy did not release the full text and the full text was not released in reaction to any article in any news paper.


Yes, that's how I know that your hero, Chairman Kaczynski, was lying when he said "'From the statements made by President Obama I remember that we were, are, and will be a model of democracy for the world." What your president actually said was


Your president said what Poland needs to be in the future, not what it will be. Why is Chairman Kaczynski lying about what your president said?

you know, people, when i read posts on this forum and generally when i look at the development of situation, its very glad to me when see how my Polish sisters and brothers awakening. NATO is something, something,... let me just say, something what isn`t for Poland. More humiliation of Poles, more examples of NATO mistrust in Poles only add to that obvious fact that NATO isn`t for Poland and for Poles. Even on the contrary, NATO is harmful for Poland and Poles.

i believe in free and normal Poland. i believe that Poles do have every right to sense that they have their common Polish interests, that Poland belong to them. As Poland once escaped to Austro-Hungaria, to Hitler, to Soviet Union and to communism, Poland would same way left NATO in its past.

People here support NATO

Many signs shows that are Poles subjugated by NATO. i sense that are Poles aware of it. God save Poland

Sense is one thing you lack. NATO is popular in Poland.

True, but PO and Petru are not! Not directly relevant except to demonstrate your one-sided take on reality. You emphasise something's popularity or public support only when it fits your prejudices and preconceived notions. PiS are popular, but when did you last highlight that fact? A majority in Poland support capital punishment (in gneral or in specifc cases) as well as lowering retirement age but we havent heard you saying the will of the nation must be heeded. Pathetic tunnel-vision bias all the way!

Did you read recent trust for politician poll? Petru was second most trusted politician (right after Duda).

Indeed. And yes, NATO has a lot of support here. President Obama's speech was also well-received despite TVP attempts to censor it.

Maybe the fact that he appeals to the ladies has something to do with it. Are you among them? In one June survey PiS got 41% backing and Petru 7%. That says a lot!

Oh yeah, because women trust a politician when he apeals to them...
For one you can say the same thing about Duda-maybe he scored high because he appeals to the ladies.
Plus- how mysoginistic can you get?
And I will wait till election to see what kind of support PiS will get. Wonder if this time they will manage to get re-elected.

And the attempts by TVP and Chairman Kaczynski to lie about what Obama said.


Funny how you don't link to that survey, are you frightened we'll instantly note the survey was carried out by an organization that relies on money from the government in order to survive.

By the way, when are you planning to address the lies you've been caught telling in this thread?

Wow, you really take an informal chart group very seriously incdeed. I saw the figure once and let it be art that with no thought of storing it or going back 2-3 years to what some poster once typed. I for one do not regard PF as a UN-sponsored international symposium or even a uni seminar, It's onył a casual, off-the-cuff chat disucssion group to bounce ideas and impressions about.

Every time a medium does not use the full text of anything, that is censorship in your books? In journalism one tries to extract key points from an endless flood of statements, interviews, pressers, briefings and other verbiage. It is true that irrelevant or inconvenient things often get left out. The Latest Michnik & Kijowski Show somehow failed to highlight the fact that Obama had not shown up despite being invited. Is that suppressign the truth? Techncially yes, but they are on a fanatical, gung-ho mission to discredit their country's government and feel bending twisting or concealing the truth is justified. Michnik even entered his late parents' world of Stalinist hyperbole and character assassination when he linked MLK's killer to Poland's good-change government.

Its funny to be lectured about democracy by people like Obama. Its like a lecture about respect for women from a pimp.

Lectured?

i am generally very polite. Direct but polite. So, let me just say directly. Some people here are stupid. Or, maybe lack informations (if that`s the case i apologize). Poles don`t like NATO. They despise NATO. All layers of Polish society are against NATO. Those are rare who support NATO in Poland.

One example. Let me just show you how young Poles and Serbians, IN THE MIDDLE OF WARSAW nicely and loudly said during protest (citation): ``Fu**, fu** NATO pact!`` Just spot video from 52:12 ...

Au contraire, mon amis.

wiadomosci.dziennik.pl/wydarzenia/artykuly/525784,polacy-popieraja-przynaleznosc-polski-do-nato-sondaz-cbos.html

Here is a summary of the survey results:

79 % of those surveyed (in Poland) support Polish membership in NATO
4 % are against membership in NATO
11 % don't care (neither for not againt membership)
6 % don't know if they support membership in NATO

what survey? we just have to ask who paid for survey


Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła!

That's pretty conclusive

Eventually, Poles and NATO is like Serbia and EU. We know that would western Europe and USA found reason to bomb us again if we refuse EU. Same way, must be that Poles sense that would Poland become open target for western Europe and USA if just Poland abandon NATO.

i pray for all of us.

Very good reason.


Highly unlikely. Poland wasn't an 'open target' before NATO accession.

Still, jon357, as you know, investigation of NATO propaganda office in Warsaw was necessary. Some people were even arrested. As a Serbian i understand that. One have to be careful with NATO propaganda machinery if seek to preserve sovereignty of one country.

All in all, if sane, we have to admit that there is some dispute between Poland and NATO. Its not open aggression. Kind of NATO`s special war against Poland.

Nonsense.


No dispute at all. Poland is a proud member of NATO and it has an extremely high approval rating among Poles. The EU too.

yes, yes. It was in the news. Go just google that, found article.

Don`t say that you don`t believe that is Poland capable to protect its sovereignty. See, that`s why Poles voted for Duda.


somethings wrong. Its obvious.

When one have in mind that is NATO responsible for more then of 100 mlrd EUR damage to Serbia and Montenegro, to their infrastructure, buildings, equipment, natural environment and lost profits, one have to conclude that payment of that damage by NATO countries could be enough of the reason for divisions inside of that military alliance. When come the time for payments of damage, for sure, Poland would refuse to oblige its own tax payers for something for what was/is responsible Bil Clinton, Tony Blair and back then German, Turkish and French politicians. Not to mention that when we speak of NATO`s campaign against Serbia in period 1992-1999, we speak of involvement of official Poland against only real and truly loyal Polish historical partners- Serbians. Historical partners that always sided with Poland and Polish people in every circumstances, at all costs and in every epoch. This thing is even that BIG that can even directly cause Poland`s abandoning of NATO. By forcing Poland to act against Serbia, western Europe done enormous blow onto the long run Polish national and strategic interests.

Also, it is historical obligation of Poland to annul its recognition of Kosovo independence. That is shame that must be washed from the face of Poland.

"Time to also examine responsibility for 1999 NATO bombing"

Source: B92 Thursday, July 14, 2016 | 13:03
b92/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2016&mm=07&dd=14&nav_id=98616



Serbian FM Ivica Dacic talk to EP rapporteur for Serbia David McAllister

And Serbia's damage (to human lives) in Kosovo and Bosnia, the mass graves, the rape camps, far exceed that since human life is priceless.

If Serbia didn't want the free world to intervene and stop their atrocities, they shouldn't have sent their butcher generals to terrorise people.

And NATO is still very very popular here in Poland. Serbia is not.