Smoking ban in Polish bars and restaurants (AT LAST!)

It's needlessly imposing your will on others when options clearly exist. I've never had a customer come to me and tell me that there is too much smoke. If that were happening enough, I would go non-smoking. If the non smoking pubs were doing great business, again, I would go non-smoking. That's not the case.

When you start weighing the health/environment positives, you have to define where you will stop. Fatty foods? Driving cars in urban areas? Burning coal and wood at home? Alcohol consumption (which directly kills more innocent bystanders than smoking)?

The exact same argument can be made for alcohol, especially here in Poland. Everyday people under the influence cause accidents and kill innocent people. What's the difference between the two arguments, and why should one be supported over the other, if it is in fact a pressing health issue?

At last??????

This is the worst thing that ever happend to Poland.

STOP control the people F sake.

Where did you say you were again??? I fancy a trip for some reason now...

Hey, that's democracy! I didn't invent democracy, I'll just take advantage of it for once in my life;)
Also, if you don't take part in sth, you sometimes decide on this (e.g. you don't practise pedophilia, but you object to other people that do so, right? - sorry for that raw example, but it shows the same rule)

Which is why we live in Republics with certain rights.


Right, within the bounds of certain rules. The rules are laid out in the Constitution. The Polish Constitution which lays out the framework, including property and economic rights (smoking issue), and personal rights (pedophilia issue).

The issue that I have is that there is a law coming into effect which bans something because someone else finds it bothersome. That someone else is voluntarily entering themselves into a situation which they find problematic, and would like the state to force a change on private property because of their personal wishes.

Smoking bans are a terrible precedent for further "greater good" causes. There is no reason that we couldn't implement an alcohol ban on the back of this, for the same reasons that are used to back this ban.

Personal reasons - Alcohol causes people to get loud and aggressive, and I don't like that.
Health reasons - Alcohol causes irreparable damage to their bodies which costs the state more.
Safety reasons - Alcohol causes more deaths (drunk driving, violence) to innocent bystanders than does secondhand smoke.

Why not campaign against alcohol? That's what I don't understand. I think it's a bit hypocritical to mention those things and not campaign against alcohol consumption. The truth is, you just don't like coming home smelling like smoke, and you feel that should be legislated.

Why campaign at all? Let people live their lives...

Smoking bans are just ridiculous.

1.I'm sorry, are you tying together the the issue of smoking with the national CONSTITUTION...? oh dear, you are grappling at straws...

2.there is no "someone else". They are your clients as well... do you not care for their rights...?

3.Surely the idea is to reduce risk... that is progress honey.

4.It's not what someone doesn't like... sheesh. It's what causes them potential harm. And it is easier to avoid others' agressive behaviour and violence than it is to avoid breathing in air. And i think you're missing the point that whether your excess drinking effects YOUR health or not, does not effect ME. Also, cars cause car accidents, not alcohol. ;)

5.So campaign against alcohol. No-one's saying it ain't bad (i know plenty of alcoholics who would disagree). we are arguing about cigarette smoke and that only. Apples and pears my friend.

The issue is private property rights. Silly me for trying to tie legislation to the Constitution.


Sure do. I am particularly supportive of their right to spend money wherever they would like.


No, it's called not being able to take care of yourself and requiring everything to be legislated that is perceived to be bad. That's well far from progress. Health and Safety regulations in the UK for instance is what I'd call the opposite of progress.


You know that your argument is weak here. Alcohol kills more innocent bystanders than cigarette smoke. Or are you not buying the fact that alcohol is a factor in the majority of assaults here in Poland, as well as the majority of road accidents? The difference between the two from a health and safety view, is negligible. The only difference in your arguments between the two, is that you are bothered by the smoke of a place which you voluntarily enter.


Again, I would have to disagree with you completely. We are arguing about property rights. You call it a smoking ban, I call it an unnecessary intrusion on property rights.

Anyway, I'm going flying. Enjoy.

PS: Attention smokers, Monday night, free shots of Becherovka for every cigarette smoked at the bar after 21:00 at Brodolom in Split! Come for "Ashley's Night" :)

I'll post some pictures with "Ashley's Night" Special on the board :)

Then my work here is done ;)

When will it start?

November 15th apparently, I wouldn't hold my breath...Get it? Really, was it that bad? :)


You win :)

Agreed, but unreal...

A bar/restaurant owner should have the right (freedom) to open up an establishment which allows or prohibits smoking. That's up to him/her.

Customers have the right (freedom) to choose where they wish to eat/drink.

BigGovernment and bureaucrats are the problem.

Bless you Zimmy, as far as an atheist can bless someone, bless you :)

You're absolutely right. People already have the freedom to choose. There are non smoking pubs in Poland which non smokers don't bother to go to. They would rather go to a place that allows smoking....and then complain about it.

I'm doing this as a Speaking Extra task next Monday. It should produce some interesting opinions. I don't have the Groucho Marx crowd in (whatever it is, I'm against it).

Merged thread:
Smoking Ban

It may be a surprise to some of you out there, but as of today you can no longer smoke in ANY public place.

I for one feel it will be more pleasant to visit the pub, and I'm delighted to know I can enjoy a meal in a restaurant without some ignorant smoker polluting the air as I eat. But as usually is the case in Poland, they've gone too far. People can't even smoke outside, and that I think is an infringement on smokers' human rights. 7 out of 10 people in Poland smoke so I think it will be impossible to enforce this ridiculous law.

I seriously doubt that.

Not true. The majority does not smoke!
I checked 3 sources and the number of smokers in Poland should be between 21 and 27 % according to them.

I picked a very good day to discuss this topic. It's hot and bang up to date. I start at 18.00 and will be picking up on what hairball said above. Civil rights will form a large part of the discussion. A role play will tease out their feelings too.

Tell us how it went. I will be starting teacher training later this month. Any advice is welcome. :)

I'm quite interested too...

- again, not true.


You made me laugh. Thanks!

Is it actually being enforced? I've had a ridiculous teaching schedule for the last two days and haven't even had the chance to drop into pubs to look :(

It's being enforced in the pubs I go to in Gdansk. No smoking signs in all of them and the staff telling people they have to go outside to smoke. I see groups of smokers outside pubs and restaurants when I walk around the Old Town, so it appears that enforcement by owners is pretty universal.

I smoke, and rather than join the discussion about the rightness or wrongness of this law, I'll just accept it and live with it. It's not a big deal to me.

Oh no, more riots to ensue...

Smoking doesn't kill, freedom kills.

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  riots_2.jpg
  

Isn't this what the Commies used to say? If not, they should have...

Does it say that they need to be at least 15-20 feet away from the entrance? That's the rule here in the USA..

Here you go Poland. This one's on us...
...

My niece was born with Emphysema, unfortunately. Nothing to do with her smoking (she never did) or her parents. Sometimes you can't just blame everything on cigarette smoking.

...And cigarettes don't CAUSE death, but they give you a much better chance of arriving there sooner than you would naturally conclude.

Sorry bout your niece. What's the air quality like where she was born?