Row over status of Poles in Germany sours relations

Heh:)
Next step...after one is proven wrong with denying the existence of a whole people start downtalking it....

How predictable!

Just a hint about polish history versus reality:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bydgoszcz#History

You (wiki) says:


Nothing german about it, right?

But now take another look at Ptolemy's map again:
spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-59994-2.html

He calls it "Ascaugalis" a german build and populated town. A part of it's heritage totally scratched out of the polish history and minds. Together with "Bromberg". Since 1800 years Germans lived in that town... how are they today???

Go away with your polish history...


You bet! :)

If the Poles would stop denying our heritage we would so rock together...:)

Why do you continue to ignore what happened after the IInd century?
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Invasions_of_the_Roman_Empire_1.png
Europe in IXth century (when settlements from II century were LONG forgotten, google much younger Biskupin for an example).
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Europe_814.jpg

It's about who is native!

As in Germans were natives to that land, much later immigrating Poles into Germany are not!

I actually tire of that argument...

The problem with you guys is you're defining "our" as german.

Also yes the Slavs went into empty terrains, that Germans lived in the area doesnt mean they actually built in it, they did not, the main germanic effort was west from the Oder.

The problem i see with your reasoning is that under german rule there was essentially one village per week of travel, proto-Poles built more than 3000 settlements in the span of a few centuries.

They build alot of towns and villages...you can deny it till you are blue in the face!

You Slavs were late comer and the land was NOT empty, just a convenient lie...as most invaders do.
Germanic settlement reached till to the Vistula. We have the map to show it..what have you?

Ascaugalis was build near the Vistula after all...2000 years back!

Germans =/= Germanics
And they were nonexistent on today's Polish territory in Xth century.

Unless you consider Scotts as native inhabitants of Germany or something along those lines.

Really...where do you think Germans stem from...the marsians?

Step 3...play with semantics!

How predictable...

if you knew a thing or two about linguistics you wouldn't connect some Budorgis (with not so precise location - next to Calisia and where is Calisia? ) with Bydgoszcz (i don't say it is not possible but is definitely obvious as you probably think )


and you possibly know where it is? or where it was? - how come we were to know it's heritage if we don't know a thing about it?

was Ptolemy ever in the lands by the way - btw doesn't it possibly show that the town was no longer in existence in 600 AD (Ptolemy's map is from around the border of the milleniums, isn't it?

my goodness - Bromberg - how old is the name Bromberg by your guess - and how come it is connected with Budorgis - care to explain - I am of an impression you hardly know a thing about linguistics - btw what does Bromberg mean in German (Lehmberg means something very specific so I expect Bromberg does too)

Name a few? Poznań, Gniezno... all major hubs all polish built.


No of course, there were small settlements both celtic and germanic, not a single city or town, not even the nazis were able to find them so they changed Poznań into a german city of Posen.


Which map? XXcent one or "Here be dragons" one? Untill XII cent all german maps are worth exactly the same as any other dark age maps, nothing.

Ps.

Koala is right though, in X century that were no Germans in Poland whatsoever.

Nah, we just gave them all their ideas ;0 ;)

I've commented before on the thread. No surprise, the Mods have allowed a general discussion on Silesia and all manner of other side issues to develop. Way to go, guys.

Poles are a reality in Germany now and Germans have to live with that. I hope the Poles also realise the investment Germany has pumped into making the EU a workable reality.

Tröt!

Man are you wrong...what's next, denying the map of Ptolemy? An old drunk fart who didn't know what he wrote about???

Step 4...denying historical finds

no Lusatians (or rather Lusatian culture were natives) according to this map too
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Germanic_tribes_%28750BC-1AD%29.png

This is about a modern issue. Please get back on track and stop going off on tangents!

Do you consider Scotts as native inhabitants of Germany? After all, they (or other Celtic tribes, which is equivalent to you) were there BEFORE Germanics.

The Sorbs have native minority rights in Germany (we call it Lausitz).


Absolutely! :)

First were the Celts in Mitteleuropa, then came the Germanics and much later came the Slavs.

bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13225829

This is about 1991 onwards and treatment of Poles in Germany. I see very little discussion on this topic. Some red pen marks are needed.

hehhe a good one Koala - Bratwurst is funny sometimes - but scary at the same time when you think that perhaps most Germans think the way he does (give beck the lend - it is unser ;) (or pay compensations (a nice German) - come and get it nice German person - I won't pay you a single penny :P:P:P

You mean to foreigners like you without Polish citizenship?Weren't you bragging that you can get Polish citizenship any-time you want, but you don't need it enjoying full rights as a EU citizen.

Well cry me a river and make a thread about it - here you are off topic!


Well, wasn't those schools funded by Polish money ? Anyhow doesn't matter two or ten subjects as long as they know the lingo, Lithuanian police state should buzz off from those schools.

Merging schools with the intention of closing down Polish onces.
What about property land mainly in Wilno region? Rightful owners still did not get it back.
You should concentrate on your population abroad - how many from 3,5m ? 1m or closer to 2m emigrated ?

Right now it's still Germany pumping money and investments into Poland...so keep your pennies.

Acknowledging the german history of your "re-gained" territories would be nice though!

I haven't heard of those big Germanic settlements you mention BB (after Ptolemy) in the archeological findings - maybe they were not actually as big as you would like to think they were - or maybe at some moment they were burnt to the ground to never be found again - maybe you know more about the archeological evidence of rampant Germanic settlements in the present day Poland - please do share

Man, I gave an example already...Ascaugalis ---> Bromberg ----> Bydgosz.

I found that example especially striking as even the naming was officially reasoned full and only slavic...nothing german about it. Nobody could ever think that they are living in a 2000 year old german town.

THAT is a prime examply of polish history telling!

Thanks, but no thanks...

I see the history but I see little effort to tie it into the present.

yes - I acknowledge that Silesian Piasts got germanized gradually starting from the 13 th century (not all of them at once though - as evidence by the one called Władysław Opoloczyk in 15th century) - I also acknowledge that by the end of 13th century the area of Sudety mountains (Sudeten Gebirge) were mostly populated by ethnic Germans - I acknowledge that after the Mongol raind on Poland (see battle of Legnica) and later plagues there was considerable German colonizations of the emptied lands (directed by the Silesian Piast princes) - I acknowlegde that cities in the Lower Silesia became mostly German during 14th century - I acknowledge these lands were part of the Habsburg Empire - I acknowledge their were won from the Habsburgs by Prussia - and became even more German/germanized in time

and I ask - so what??? :)

Stop spreading that BS! You are funny while at the same time you support Palestinians.
Tell you 2000 years ago on the lands in question there were some people but nobody was questioning the about their nationality :D
Why don't you claim Scandinavia which is your cradle, bloody idiot!

Mods, are you sleeping??????

What about Ascaugalis?


So you acknowledge that Germans are native to what is now Poland but Poles are not native to Germany?

That's the question after all...

you can't be sure of the asociation - what do you base this association on??? - linguistics does not provide for such an association (even a vague assumpt) - ask any linguist you know - I hope you do know one -

Germans lived there before the Slavs till Huns came and the land was deserted.Then the Slavs came to the deserted areas mostly peacefully.

Erm..a 1800 year old map?

Do you read any of my links at all?

so what ?? :)