4th Polish Republic may re-emerge

Your words.


Why would I?

The IV Republic left behind nothing but broken promises and people.

So PiS is worse than the NSDAP? Interesting!

Simple idea of IV RP is overthrowing III RP with everything it represents- good and bad. Such behaviour is simply stupid.


True, my bad. But if I'm not mistaken you do sugest that PiS and IV RP are not so popular BECAUSE ppl are ignorant.


I love it :) My cats are often trying to communicate with PF members as well :)


I'm rather about the fact that changing constitution and "overthrowing" the III RP shouldn't be taken slightly. Isn't it better to just change what is wrong than blowing things up?

So basically you say:
The hell with the things that we all agreed to we will break the deal? Where is honour in that? Would you make buisness with someone with that approach? I wouldn't.

I think the only thing that I can honestly say was good about PiS's rule was reducing the tax progressive scale from 19-30-40 to 18-32. Nothing else was worth these 2 years of mess.

If I recall rightly, wasn't this pretty much a given regardless of who went into power at that point?

What about the upgraded history teaching curriculum? Under tusk it has been watered down. Who needs history? - ask pedestrian PO Poles.
People of culture also say the PiS-led governemtn was better for the nation's culture.

But what exactly they want to overthrown, which is good.

I never heard that one.


For example our constitution which I think is perfectly good.

The problem was that the curriculum wasn't actually upgraded at all.


I would absolutely love to see some references to that, given the vast amount of opposition within cultural circles to PiS.


Me neither. I've got a few friends involved with the Arts and they are all absolutely anti-PiS to the core.

Perhaps Polonius is referring to IV RP types, who of course flourished then as they were rewarded for their political reliability.

What our youth needs right now is an upgraded math and science curriculum, cause they are getting out of school completely under-educated in this field. History is important, but its whole material shouldn't be compulsory. You won't feed your kids with history. Math on the other hand is highly practical and useful in a large number of fields. That being said, if a person knows what year did the November uprising happen, but doesn't know how to calculate the area of a rectangle or volume of a cube, the person just finished their high school education as a moron. Making math compulsory on matura is a good first step. Just the difficulty level should be turned up quite a lot to match other matura tests.

What actually makes it far worse is that very little is taught about the post-war era, despite it being of massive importance.


But but...THEY DIDN'T HAVE COUNTLESS HOURS ABOUT THE PIAST KINGS!

That's true. Post-war history is virtually nonexistent in history lessons.


lol

Which is tragic, but I guess it avoids the usage of schools as propaganda platforms.

Not only that. PiS exists because people are ignorant and let other rule over them instead of thanking interest in politics and organize themselves, then PiS wouldn't be needed.


What makes you thing that such thing is taken slightly? Some people who are talking about that have been in politics before you were born.That is only your assumption that somebody want to take rush, or not thought through actions.


It is not about constitution, bad as it is. That is about changing system ie people who showed their hand overthrowing Olszewski government.


No he is saying that whatever deals have been made. Have been made in secret and for that they had no authorization, nor mandate. In fact all so called Round Table have been a deal between Soviets Poles and selected by them people form opposition. Walensa didn't have the right to represent Solidarity.

There were no honor, and there no deal need to honored as they have been made by usurpers and traitors about the nation.
That deal could be have been treated as limited agreement till election not as promise that all Soviet Poles will hold privileged position for ever.

What's wrong with the Constitution?


That government was shaky enough as it was. You do remember that the 1st placed party in the 1991 election got something like 12% of the national vote, right? It's not as if Olszewski's government was anything special in the way that it fell apart.


Ho ho ho. Lech Kaczynski was part of the Round Table talks - are we finally seeing an admission that he was handpicked?


If Walesa didn't, then who did?

Still, Ironside, while you fight for the IV RP from afar, we'll carry on making the real Polish State a better place to live.

everyone taking part in-that has been hand picked but Soviet Poles but not everyone made deal or privet arrangements with them.


That for you to check. If you tell me I will debate with you if not - not.For your attitude here and for your words you need to earn the right to debate with me.


Do you watch TV?I would like to point your attention to programs about nature. Specifically to kind of frog that lives in the rain fores. To fool its opponents inflates itself to double or triple of its original size to scare off its opponents. In reality it is nothing but a hot air.

So Lech Kaczynski was hand picked? Hmmm.


I've got several books on Solidarność and none of them mention anything about a "real" leader of Solidarity. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to why Walesa was negotiating then?

Spot on. Why else? The sole reason for PiS' existence is the fact that people are ignorant. I don't see any other reason for them to have such large popularity.


Firstly, was there anything illegal about it? Secondly, was there anything good about Olszewski's government?


Even if so, it got rid of the old system. For that we should all be grateful.


Then who did? And it's Walesa.


A few things. Like defining marriage as between man and woman only. I agree with Ironside here that this should be changed.


Good riddance basically.


HAHA. Thanks for the good laugh. One indeed must earn their right to descend into the gutter.


Well unfortunately, TV in Poland is rather stupifying.


Are you trying to say that PiS having so much popularity in opposition is just hot air? I have to agree with that.

As far as I understand it, it's perfectly legal in Polish politics to bring down Governments. Didn't PiS just try recently to do just that?

As for Olszewski's government - it was always going to be hard to run a Government with such a messy political outcome as the 1991 election.


I never knew Ironside was such a supporter of gay marriage! :)

It's part of a democratic process.


That's one of the reason why the 5% barrier has been introduced.


Told you, crypto-homosexuality in its finest :)

The present constitution was pushed through by the ex-commies (Kwaśniewski & Co.) with the support of their fellow-travellers from th left-leaning, cosmopolitan KOR-ite 'Unia Rozwolności' (or whatever it was called). The patriotic truly Polish AWS (Solidarity Electoral Action) led by Jerzy Buzek was dead set against it but got outvoted. Unlike normal constitutions it even lacks a clear 'incvocatio Dei' in its preamble.

Buzek £obuzek and his butt buddy "w krzaki z takim". Thanks, but no thanks.


Why would anyone want to waste paper on that...

The constutution was established if far more democratic way than what they wanted to do- we had a referendum so it wasn't pushed

Polling-station demcoracy is important but the final outcome also depends to a large extent on who has mainstream media support as well as that of other small but wealthy and influential groups. In the US, for instance, if the mainstream media and Hollywood types support something, that is a tremendous boost to that cause. Numerically those elites are not that big, but they have the best potential for swaying or brainwashing the masses.

True, but you still can't say it was "pushed". Ppl in Poland wanted that constitution as to when PiS ruled- changes would have been made through Sejm so normal ppl wouldn't be allowed to express their opinion. Which way is more "pushy" ?

you know a thing or two about that right?


You are a true Tuskitie then, do you lick his buts every-so often?


No problem referendum could be held for a new Constitution.

Not from my own perspective, but looking at people like you, yeah. I can tell.


A Tuskite that doesn't like or support Tusk. That must be a new thing.


Just like it was before.

If that was the case and Poles decided they want the new constitution I would accept it even if I didn't like the changes. However that wasn't the case and PiS never got the 2/3 support in Sejm it needed to change it.

good for you, what else can you tell? Can you see the wall before you crash into it? brilliant!


No really he ****** a few people and then kicked them out. It fairly common occurrence in PO echelons by now.


If they get majority - what is the problem?
I don't understand that confusion with Constitution, hey that Poland. That really do not matter right? The state ie government con do anything as long as got majority and support of the media like PO. They are doing all they want right now and people are just being silly if they think that some law is protecting them.

glad you admit it


If you say so. I don't support PO, not my problem.