Referendum to cost Polish taxpayers nearly 130 mln zl amid uncertain turnout

The 6th September referendum concocted by ex-president Komorowski the Platformer-controlled senate will cost Polish taxpayers some 130 million złotys. The exercise will be in vain if 50% do not turn out nad vote, but the cost will have to be borne anyway. It's amazing how nonchalantly politcians are generous with other people's money! Komorowski's knee-jerk panic at the 21% support Kukiz got prompted him to call a referendum. Although initially the JOW (first-past the-post) election system seemed promising to many, upon reconsideration and observing many foriegn examples (e.g. UKIP) it has raised serious questions.

As noted in the thread (below), adding referendum questions to a parliamentary election ballot (the way Priesdent Duda has suggested) costs next to nothing, but printing seżarate referendum ballot papers runs into the millions.

wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1,114871,18680562,krajowe-biuro-wyborcze-zdradza-ile-kosztuje-referendum.html

@Pol: are you sure of the amount? Seems very (too) high to me. Some (pro PO) people around me told me yesterday that they don't expect more than 10-15% participation.....

That figure came from the National Election Bureau chief:
polska.newsweek.pl/ile-bedzie-kosztowac-referendum-6-wrzesnia-2015,film,369752.htm

That turnbout estimate seems quite likely. It seems Komorowski went off half-cocked. Now nobody -- neither PiS nor PO nor even Kukiz himself is really urging any turnout or publicising the referendum.

@Pol: So much money thrown away! Most people don't even know what it is about (cf. incl. others today's GW) and most of them don't care any way. I would not be surprised if those organizing said referendum got blamed as of Sunday pm when we know results for so much money wasted. A disgrace!

Much like the referendum in Warsaw which wasted millions after a selection of PISites who don't even pay their taxes in Warsaw decided to waste a lot of other people's money. I very much enjoyed going to the polling station for that referendum, checking that my name was on the list and then declining the offer of a ballot paper.

@Harry: 2 wrongs don't make 1 right ;). Wasting (by anyone) so much money does not make any sense. Everybody knows that participation won't reach 50%. I cannot get over it that Komorowski so quickly bought whatever Kukiz said. Well, Kukiz got 21% but not too hard to realize from very beginning that he is nothing more than a clown.

To be fair, it nearly worked. Komorowski was suffering quite badly in the opinion polls just after the 1st round - yet the final result was close.

This referendum is certainly helping more people to realise that he is an utter clown.

...And that Komorowski was an utter fool to be duped into calling a referendum! If it doesn't attract a 50% turnout, the ex-president should be forced to pay for it out of his own pocket. His five kids can chip in and help him raise the cash.

Certainly more of a Catholic than Duda, who despite his "Catholicism" only had one child.

I'm really not sure why his kids are in any way relevant to this topic, though.

Anyway, I've heard it mentioned that PO will propose legislation based on the results of the referendum - so even if the 50% margin isn't reached, they will still advance legislation based on popular will.

if no money were involved, it could sound like a joke.

Barely 50% of people vote in presidential and parliamentary elections so how do they expect to have a 50% turnout on Sept. 6? It is another example of (all) politicians being disconnected from reality.

I don't know anyone who will bother to vote on Sunday. It is mushroom season.

Anyone know what could be done for the Polish people with 130 million zł? Healthcare, road building, refugee centres, etc.

@Pol: of course, a lot could have been done with these 130 million ZL.

@Delph: you know, sometimes people don't have many kids (or don't have any) even if very religious simply because of medical reasons.

Without expressing a view for or against the actual quesitons of Duda's planned referendum, knowing the Poles' low turnout, combining general elections with any current referendum IMHO would be a good and inexpensive way of proceeding. The best of both worlds: direct voter input on a given issue at no extra cost. Separate referenda should be reserved for only the most vital state questoins such as: "Should the Polish Armed Forces march to Ukraine's aid in the face of Russian aggression?" or "Should Poland withdraw from the EU?"

Yes, it would have made better sense. It seems to me that Komorowski after the 1st round was sort of running around like a chicken whose head had been cut off and thus this nonsense referendum. He seemed so scared of Kukiz that he felt he had to position himself according to Kukiz, who lead the dance.

I am sure that as of Monday a lot of people will complain about the cost as obviously the turnout is going to be very very low.

130m zl isn't really that much money though in fairness, it's only what...€30m, Warsaw stock exchange makes that in a minute.
I honestly think they should've spent more.
I asked a few friends about it and some didn't even know there was one on this wknd

@Smurf: Yes, in terms of a nation, it is not a fortune but was it really necessary to spend 130 million (ZL) on something not crucial and about which nobody cares? Komorowski's decision was taken in a moment of panic because of the Kukiz at the time phenomenon.

As a (Polish) taxpayer, I'd rather have my tax ZL go to schools, hospitals, transportation, people in need....

I cannot wait to find out about the results on Sunday night ;)

I would prefer not to have referenda at all on these issues. Even with Duda's proposal - why do we need a referendum on 6 year olds going to school? Likewise with JOW or state funding of political parties - we don't need a referendum to determine such things. Local elections went to JOW without any fuss, after all.

Well, y'know, it's like everything here, the money's been misused.
Surely 10-15% of it could've been used to inform the electorate of the issues and other relevant info.


wouldn't we all, and less stupid military toys too

Poland's democratic, impartial and PO-dominated Senate, which wholeheartedly backed Komorowksi's 130 million złoty referendum, has vetoed the cost-free referendum cum election proposed by President Duda.

That is 130 million wyrzucone w błoto, because there's no way in the world 50% will vote on Sunday. But Platformer oldboy politics being what it is, the party's notions and proposals must be supported regardless of their advisability, relevance and cost.

Both referenda should have never been allowed - that 2 for 1 analogy is lame...

I beg to differ. Every saving of taxpayer money should be supported. It should become standard practice to incldue any referundum questions on the ballot if such exist at election time. Also, the Sejm should be cut back to 200 members and the Senate to 50. And government ministers should be assigned Opel Vectras rather than BMWs or Audis... After all, they constantly claim they are only here "to serve the people", so excessive luxury is a needless waste.

That's democracy. We elected the Senate to prevent populism as displayed by Duda.


Legislation can be advanced regardless of turnout. The 50% mark is only when it becomes binding.

But it didn't seem to work in regard to the populism displayed by Komoruski.
The party above all!

Precisely. It exists to provide a brake against paranoid politics and ensure a hard-won stability.

But who says a 50-seat Senate couldn't just as effectivley brake the legislative folly of a 200-strong Sejm. And think of the savings for worthier causes than redundant lawmakers.

I'd argue that there's no need for the Senate at all, or simply decrease it dramatically by allowing two senators to be elected by each province. If people want it to stay, then it should be composed of 32 candidates voted for at the same time as the provincial elections - 2 from each province should do the job. It absolutely should not be elected at the same time as the Sejm, as it just means that the Senate majority is held by the biggest party in the Sejm.

Glad to hear you admit it! You're exactly the type of person who was a party member before 1989.

The actual size is nto that important as long as its smaller than 100, but the Senate is needed as part of the system of checks and balances. Poles hate to be herded to the polls, so a separate senate election is out of the question, In fact, it'd be advisable to hold presidential and parliamentary elections and any referendum in a single go, either shortening the presidential term to 4 years or extending the palriamnetary one to 5.