Pubs in Poznan kick out Roma?

The Gazeta Wyborcza daily publishes the story on International Holocaust Remembrance Day on January 27 to coincide with the anniversary of the liberation of the Auschwitz Nazi German death camp. Over 20,000 Romani perished in the death camp during WW II.

Pubs in Poznan kick out Roma?
Printed : 27.01.2011 11:5

The article I am sure was timed for all the right reasons, " To make people aware" what is still happening today nearly 70 years later.

So what ?
How many Poles perished in WWII and people form all over the world have a cheek to tell them to stop whining about it !
What it has to do with pubs policy ?

The problem that you don't see the association is the problem.

I would be interested to hear the views of Professor-Marek-Chodakiewicz, after reading the article.

It means you define Pol;es as being of pure Catholic blood? Preferably living outside Silesia / Kashubia / Mazuria / Górale areas?

I have only recently read about Romani in WWII death camps, unfortunately it has not had the publicity that it should have had in my life.

The Roma people are probably the most discriminated natives in Europe.
I don't know of any country that this could not have happened in, in other words, Poland is not special in this regard.

My thoughts on the issue are conflicted:
Morally it is wrong to ban someone based on their ethnicity or perceived stereotype but legally I think pubs and clubs should be allowed to admit or deny whoever they want.

There are Romani people around here (where I live in Poland) and they wear the most beautiful colourful traditional dresses. I always catch myself staring at the wonderful colours and of course the ladies in them :)


Come on, this is a discussion forum... we have to get into it or else there won't be much of a discussion just a load of bickering (on PF? NEVER:)

One thing I associate with Ramani people that sets them apart from every other culture I have come into contact with, is that begging seems to be regarded as quite normal, it does not seem to be frowned upon, at least to the same extent as in other cultures.

I would like to add a disclaimer, that I do not know any Romani people, I do know some Irish travellers but they are not of the same culture.

And I am not saying that all Roma people beg.


I think this is a fair point.

In Ireland we have "Irish travellers", they are also demonised and persecuted.
They do not go to our schools or settle in one place and are basically outsiders in our 'oh so modern world', which is a real pity, as I strongly oppose the homogenisation of our thoughts and therefore our lives.

Where anyone who thinks and lives differently is discriminated against.
It is a sickness we have developed.

And pubs do shut down when there is a traveller's wedding or funeral because of some of the travellers giving the rest a bad name.

People that have no desire to integrate will always be discriminated against.

Or rather those who dont wont them to integrate.

Are you saying it's a kind of 'Mob Rule'?
You are either with us or hit the road?

I saw enough Poles on trams begging for money and using their kids to do it to warrant the fact that this was not a gypsi problem, but rather a poverty problem. Still it was always labelled as a gypsi problem, strange.

OK ! lets talk about associations!
Poland as the only EU member was excluded from the WVP.
The reason? Some Poles as Americans claimed were overstaying their visas, so the majority of Poles were abused or discriminated against because of the action of minority.

However all, so high and mighty liberals and fighters for human rights on PF - were strangely silent about it and never condoned said policy.

Analogously, some obscure policy of the private business, Pub where as I understand they can refuse to serve anybody they want to refuse, is seen and advertised as racist, discriminatory and as a prove that Poles are racists !

Well, lady's and gents , you cannot have it both ways !
What don't you say what you really think - Poles are backwater of civilized society just because ! We are so much better !
Ah!? There is only one catch - it would be racist, right >?

Ironside, it is discriminatory...


I've read on this forum a thread about Gypsies, I think the title was something about Roma women with children begging in the streets. I was quite shocked by the attitude of British (maybe American too) people writing there, calling them "gypos", etc. And I remember that Harry reacted only to a comment written probably by a Pole and not to those written by the foreigners. That was... "interesting".

The Rom were usually in the next section of the camp.

Fair point.

I think he's comparing it to the "No Jews Allowed" laws.

Of course the big question here is whether the pubs are just blacklisting ALL Rom and Rom looking people (not good) OR barring identified/known troublemakers and their associates (acceptable but difficult to prove)


Indeed. It is the Polish beggars who have been reported to the local Police in Olsztyn for being abusive and aggressive.

Ironically,seeing as the way some are taking this,it was only through my buying a cheap video years ago that I learnt about the persecution. Mind you,the Roma were Gassed starting 1st august 44,I guess Poles have other things to remember on that day....BTW,ironic because it was a Polish made film called "And The Violins Stopped Playing" .


No,it simply showed that some Poles ARE rascist....the follow up posts on here just proved they arnt the only Poles/"others" who are rascist,seemples.

you have a right to choose people you would like to invite to your place ....the same goes for pubs restaurants and such !

Unlikely: there are not many Poles who post here (obviously the turncoats and traitors in North American don't count as Poles).


If they got as far as a camp. Large numbers of them were just shot where they were found.

It could just be that the article was printed so soon after the complaint was made that the police haven't had time... OR maybe they don't see anything to investigate.

I agree but it is immoral to judge a whole group of people in a discriminator manner.

Precisely.


Given that one place refused service to a violinist who played there and was there with his grand-daughter, it rather seems that they're blacklisting all Roma.

Yep, Mengele was quite fond of them... in a 'professional' sense.

England and Scotland used to have hanging laws against Romani, which is why there are/were so many settlements along the borders. The laird of Rosslyn refused to implement the laws, hence the large community which used to live there.

I agree

A local pub in England had the trick of allowing the Travellers in for St Paddy's Day, letting them drink the bar dry and spend themselves out, and then barred them the next day when they had no more money.

So presumably you don't consider Roma to be people. How surprising.

Maybe he was also there when the trouble occurred. Maybe it was his playing which started it!

or more plausibly barred them the next day after the thousands of pounds damage caused and the constant sexual harassment of non gadjo girls working behind the bar....come on,you lost credibility there with the Irish pikey running out of beer money bit.....:)

Must say I prefer the style and grace of Polska Roma to our versions...
youtu.be/2HAUmII_hcg

No, really. They were 'pikeys', not Rom (so no Gadjo). They'd been camped up the top of the town for a few weeks. The pub wasn't trashed... they just ended up trying to buy pints with fake pound coins.

Really? I've learned about this at school.
Is it only about Jews in the Western history books...?


What are you talking about?

That animal's name came up a lot in reading about Romani in WWII.
It is freaky reading about people like him, freaky in the sense that it was all kind of 'civilised' and 'normal' that another human being, like myself, could do such things is mind boggling.


The focus is on Poles and Polish Jews.

lol,those lead coins are a larf :) Must cost more to make the fakes :)
Trevak,the irish "travellers" here have knicked so much real gypsy culture over the years that its becoming intermingled....local dialect around here uses Gadjer as young,slightly dodgy lad.

The Travellers still have the same view of so called outsiders though and see non traveller girls as trashy fair game(plainly because non traveller girls havnt been brainwashed into victorian ideas of a womans place).

No,"West" is a rather broad church is it not....sorta like me saying your schools and Georgian schools teach the same....
No,its not "only jews" we are taught about in school....and,BTW, I bought the video when I was 13/14,is it not true that most schools around Europe avoid the holocaust untill age 15?

Re,what am I talking about....shame on you if you are Polish and August the 1st 1944 doesnt mean anything to you :(