Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom?

The most obvious things is not always correct. There is _lots_ of ways how it can be done. You can spend rest of your life speculating about it (I suspect that you already started this lifetime career). And looks like there is no arguments that may change mind of a beleiver.

The majority of people (the ones without fog in their minds) will wait for more information before making final decision.

If ever that "information" comes! And from who... Criminals rarely admit the truth. Unlike most, I wasn't born yesterday.

Surely. I would bet - not less than 14-15 yrs ago, since so fluent English in addition to native Polish takes some time.. ;) Or it was Polish in addition to native English? ;) If so, I will double lower limit - Polish is not so easy to learn.

Does WHO gain from the elimination of the Polish elite?

The death of key Polish government and military leaders in a plane crash on Saturday will drastically change the country's political landscape and weaken the position of Poland’s Health Minister, Ewa Kopacz, who refused the swine flu vaccine at the start of the false pandemic last autumn.

Kopacz was the only health minister in Europe to refuse the swine flu vaccine in spite of intense pressure from WHO and pharamceutical companies.

Her refusal was a game changer, sparking a debate about the need for the swine flu vaccine across Europe.

On March 29th, the Council of Europe praised Poland’s Health Minister Ewa Kopacz for her handling of the pandemic at a high-profile hearing.

The council’s Committee on Social, Health and Family Affairs said that Kopacz’s decision not to order any swine flu vaccines in spite of pressure from health bodies and pharmaceutical companies was correct.

Kopacz said that Poland had found the terms proposed by pharmaceutical companies were unacceptable.

She noted that Poland fewer fatal cases of the swine flu virus and the virus was less virulent than in other countries.

UK MP Paul Flynn, who is preparing a Council of Europe report on the false pandemic to be released at the end of April, called the decision “an act of courage”.

Flynn said other countries had wasted millions of euro on unneccessary vaccines.

Also, Marc Gentilini, former head of the French Red Cross, also said that Poland can serve as an example of how to handle the threat of an A/H1N1 pandemic.

But Kopacz was able to resist the pressure to buy the swine flu vaccines because she could be sure of the support of the real power in a govenrment, the security services and the army.

These „powers behind the throne“ shield ministers from reprisals, threats and sackings.

The military and secret service chiefs in Poland also supported a strong and independent central bank governor.

Kopacz’s decision not to buy swine flu vaccines was fiercely criticized and ombudsman Janusz Kochanowski even threatened to file legal action against her, making it all the more vital for her to have a network of support among the key institutions such as the secret services and the army.

It is true that the ombudsman Kochanowski also died in the plane crash along with the military chiefs, security service chief and the central bank governor. However, the power of the ombudsman is small compared to that of army and secret service chiefs and in chess, a pawn is often sacrificed to get the king.

By eliminating the president, the two presidential candidates and the entire military, financial and secret service leadership of Poland at the same time, the pro-WHO, pro-IMF, pro-euro government of Donald Tusk can carry out a coup d’etat.

The now acting president Bronislaw Komorowski has already moved with speed to fill key positions such as the security service chief taking advantage of the state of shock in which Poland finds itself.

It is true that this is in accordance with the constitution but the the constitution was never designed for a sitation where the president, two of the three presidential candidates, the top military and secret service chiefs and the central bank governor were all killed in the same plane crash under suspicous circumstances.

This is surely a criminal law case not a constitutional law case.

There is plenty of evidence pointing to foul play.

Criminal charges should be filed against Komorowski and Tusk.

A complete change of the power elite in Poland opens the way for Tusk to introduce new economic and also public health policies that favour WHO, pharmaceutical companies and the banks.

Destroying Kopacz’s invisible support network sets the stage for the eventual elimination of an effective opponent of the pandemic vaccine and also of martial law.

That WHO is planning a bird flu pandemic can be seen from the fact that Professor Bruno Lina, a WHO-affiliated professor, is carrying out experiments to cross the swine flu with the bird flu.

In addition, WHO has refused to change its pandemic level 6 declaration, which allows it significant power over country’s governments.

Also, governments such as the UK government have cancelled swine flu vaccines only to order bird flu vaccines.

The elimination of Poland’s independent-minded elite in an engineered plane crash also serves as a warning to other politicians and military figures in Europe challenging WHO and the globalists.

Flynn and the COE have launched its own inquiry into the WHO and governmental pandemic responses, and a report is due to be finished at the end of April to be voted on by elected officials from 47 nations, and go to Europe’s parliaments, and WHO must fear the result.

WHO is clearly opposed to the COE inquiry: it refused to send experts to the second hearing in March, where the COE panel heard not only the testimony of Kopacz but also a devastating critque of vaccines by epidemiologist Dr Tom Jefferson.

The COE report, even in a watered down form, could create the basis for dismantling the pandemic management system that the global elite have set up to deliver mass deaths, forced vaccination and martial law.

The purge of the elite in Poland could be the start of purges of vaccine opponents throughout Europe as WHO and the pharmaceutical companies gear up for a second attempt at launching a global pandemic, this time using the bird flu virus.

Under the Lisbon Treaty, the EU police can arrest anyone suspected of terrorism even if the constitution of Europe prohibits this.

The globalists in the EU and USA have been expanding the definition of terrorist to encompass anyone who criticises their policies and crimes in a clear abuse of the law.

Your smarminess is unbecoming.

But isn't that normal? The country, although mourning, has to be governed somehow. The best thing to do this is to do it as quickly as pssbl. Or would you rather have a Poland that is continuing without leaders for a prolonged period of time? Wouldn't be good for PL, I reckon.

It's also logical that Kaczynski took his like-minded ppl with him. After all, the "others" (ie political opponents?) had already been there on the 7th. The big mistake was to put them all in one plane, but yet it's understandable in a way: I believe it's rule that only the PM and the President (plus their respective key figures) take seperate planes.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Indeed. I'm only adding fuel to the conspiracy fire.
With all this talk of 'Russia', I thought I'd go West. :)

a larger picture is here and shows contact of Tu 154 with some aerial ( down below the main road )

farm3.static.flickr.com/2763/4515204703_07f966c125_o.jpg

the very first video from the scene made by a Polish journalist who in that time was at the airport, notice how quiet was there

If I see so silly conclusions in the first reasoning, I usually do not take seriously the rest.

No 3- don't mix journalists and even specialists misinterpretation with lies and facts - black boxes will tell us the story;

No 4 - it is not true. Local people on local Smolensk forum discussed that fog.

Other points are discussible. Important thing in conspiracy theory is to find motives - who benefit and how?

Who would want to eliminate the Polish government? An article in Jewish Currents entitled "The Return of the Radical Right in Poland" reports:

"Something has gone very, very wrong in Poland. After elections last September, a group called 'Law and Justice,' led by a longtime Solidarity activist and right-wing politician named Jaroslaw Kaczynski, emerged as the largest party in parliament. Victory in the following month's presidential election went to Kaczynski's identical twin Lech... The Kaczynskis formed a coalition with an agrarian populist group called "Self-Defense" and a radical-right party with the innocuous name of 'The League of Polish Families.' Polite Western journalists have labeled this government 'center-right' or 'conservative,' but it is hard to find anything centrist about those holding power in Warsaw today. Even Europe's mainstream conservative parties have publicly disavowed any affiliation with Law and Justice (not to mention the other two coalition members). Put simply, the extreme right now rules Poland, and people widely considered marginal and dangerous even a year ago are now within the corridors of power."

jewishcurrents.org/2006-sept-porter.htm

If you suggest that plane's contact with aerial which pilot might not see in the fog had possibly changed direction of the landing approach then I agree with you.


Although 'very bad weather' is a poorly defined term and can mean whatsoever to different people.

In fact, pilots are not advised to land in the conditions below minimal ones which vary for different planes and airports.

As far as I know, minimal visibility allowed for landing of Tu154 in Severnu airbase, Smolensk is about 1000 meters meanwhile actual visibility was about 400 meters which is much below minimum.

That situation ended pretty quickly, so that didn't count as reason anymore. But of course, it was the Jews. It's always the Jews when something goes wrong with PL. After all, they want to dominate the world and the entire balance of power will be completely turned upside-down when Poland, the most important, strongest and most influencial power in the world will become headless. Where better to start ruling the world than there?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Mostly opinions and conjecture.


It's a question of not only the weather, but also the equipment available to navigate in those conditions. Smolensk military base did not have ILS navaids, so with visibility lower than minimum, most planes (and the IL76 before them) would divert rather than risk crashing.

The radar approach is not something most people would like to do.


There are plenty of plane crashes every day. They don't all make international news. Here in Ireland we had a fatal plane crash the day after Kasczynski's plane.

Also the Mirosławiec crash 2008 , I don't think made the news in Ireland.


That's your opinion. It's a label a lot of nations get.


The media are not Russian authorities nor are they a court, they rush to get headlines and accuracy is not first priority if there is no great risk of being sued.


ATC Weather report I was referred to, said 1'C with 98% humidity. IL 76 diverted due to poor visibility, people on the ground and cameras show fog later on, and while possible to land in fog, it's usually cos the airport has good ILS equipment.


Perhaps with much better weather.

While I never overtly stated this, I actually didn't mean to imply this either.
As I responded before, I am merely adding fuel to the fire by 'looking West'.
I simply thought this to be of some interest given its non-mainstream slant:

Jewish Currents is a progressive, secular Jewish bimonthly magazine that carries on the insurgent tradition of the Jewish left through independent journalism, political commentary, and a “countercultural” approach to Jewish arts and literature. Founded in 1946 as Jewish Life, the magazine was reorganized and re-launched in 1958 as Jewish Currents, with Morris U. Schappes (1907-2004) as its editor, a post he held for four decades.

The magazine is unique among Jewish publications in its historical awareness, its commitment to diversity and democracy in Jewish life, its doikayt (here-ness), its love of Yiddish language and culture, and the independence and unpretentiousness of its political voice.

Although a bit dated, I did find this to be an honest and enlightening read.
Again, for all this talk of 'Russia', this perhaps lends itself to looking 'West'.

In keeping with the spirit of this thread, let the conspiracy theories thrive! :)

The short red line shows how he veered of the course after initial clipping, little ways before the highway.

It looks like pilot tried to land the plane at minimal height (from which he wanted to see a runway better, perhaps?) just above the trees but hit something tall (an aerial?) on its way and after impact veered into woods where collapsed.

Who benefits? Putin & Tusk
How? 1) Tusk's archrival is eliminated. It's common knowledge he despised Kaczynski. Now Tusk is considering running for presidency, with Putin's support. 2) Tusk, if elected, will withdraw Poland from plans for missile defense shield=Putin very happy.

"The plane crash that killed Poland's president and leading opposition politicians has removed at one stroke key opponents of Prime Minister Donald Tusk and his ruling centrist Civic Platform"

"Polish premier's ill-fated trip shrouded in acrimony...

The ill-fated journey that wiped out Poland's governing elite on Saturday was prompted by an angry feud between President Lech Kaczynski and his Prime Minister over the country's tense relationship with Russia, it has emerged."

"Vladimir Putin's brotherly embrace of a tearful Polish prime minister was one of the most powerful images beamed from the site of Saturday's plane crash that killed Poland's president and many of the country's elite."

"Poland PM Tusk Considers Running for President"

"The death of Poland's president carries a terrible echo of his country's past...When government ministers tried to haggle with America about a planned missile-defence base, he undercut them. Poland would be happy to have the installation on any terms. To Mr Kaczyński, his brother, and many of their supporters, Russia was still a menace, run by the former KGB... his arch-rival Donald Tusk..."

"Donald Tusk - a friend of Russia? Donald Tusk also hinted that the ABM issue has not been finalized and, hence, Moscow has a chance to persuade Warsaw not to host the American missile interceptors...Tusk mentioned one more problem in bilateral relations. Warsaw may "adjust its position" on oil and gas supplies. He meant primarily Yaroslaw Kaczynski's decision to build a terminal on the Baltic coast - in the event that Moscow stops gas supplies via the Yamal-Europe pipeline.

"Redzikowo Missile Defense Shield"

Olga,

Is there any chance for you that an advice of an air traffic controller was perhaps a lonely voice of an angel uttered in that fog in order to rescue the people onboard from what had followed? He just was not listened well, perhaps. :)

Anything is "possible" in dreamland...what is most likely? Pilots of this caliber don't end up flying heads of state if they have a history of "not listening well." That is called "kamikaze." Pilot in this case was fluent in Russian and English and had just landed a plane there 3 days earlier.

... and maybe he thought he could do it again with 'eyes closed'.

Remember, investigators are going ONLY on what air traffic controllers are telling them... and you think they would admit it, if that were the case? Flight data has only been examined so far by Russia, Polish investigation is myth.

"Russian officials have recovered the two cockpit voice recorders and are decoding them."

"Poland's post-crash sense of unity starts to fray ..Aviation experts say the probe of the crash is moving relatively quickly but some Poles are complaining about a lack of public information, including the transcript of conversation in the cockpit before the accident..."This investigation is moving rather quickly and I've seen more information released than I would normally expect," said Bill Voss, president of the U.S.-based Flight Safety Foundation."


Bulls**t

Titanic was not too bad either, Olga.

Your speculations are nonsense. Why is the only information coming from the Russian side--because they have control of the investigation.

some will not be happy until the finger is pointed squarely at some russians.

Ultimately, whether to land or not is pilot's decision, not towers. In retrospect, he made a wrong one. But, if he was couple of meters higher, probably only his flyboy buddies would ever hear about this one.

Don't forget, Russia is pro at blaming others...perfect example, 70 years of Katyn on Germans.

"Throughout history, Russian leaders have sought to suppress dissent by driving critics into exile - or worse"

kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/63490/

And nobody is blaming "Russians." Only stating obvious reasons why to be justifiably suspicious of Putin. You forget he is ex-KGB lieutenant colonel? Why don't you read some news other than state-approved propaganda?

just because they are known to blame others does not mean we should too.

Execution of journalists critical of Putin may be one reason you don't.


Just because you are being fed something, don't swallow it so willingly.

I had actually read a comment from a Polish prosecutor quoted in British media a day or two ago.