Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom?

And being Polish you are bringing shame to all of us. The possibilities of foul play are certainly there. Until we know for sure what happened then we could speculate it was the Russians, the Americans or even... you. After all the zeal with which your spewing hatred might make someone wonder... how much is she getting paid for this garbage?

You remind me of a buddy of mine who found a sure way to excuse himself from jury duty. During and interview he said he needs no judges or court proceedings - he looks at the accused and he know whether the accuses is guilty or not. That's pretty much the gist of the senseless hatred you spewing here.

Don't you think it it could make sense to wait for the Polish investigators' opinions?

I actually have seen confirmations of this from Polish prosecutor quoted in British media today.

No.
Your opinion is based on a single claim: "Mr Putin and/or Russians are evil". You are behind a wall you've built yourself.

Even that wouldn't fit-we're not as important for Russia as we think.I don't believe in "revenge crime" in this case.They could loose more than they could gain.In fact for Russia it'd be better if it never happened.Now the whole world hear about Katyń.

It was the British who killed him! At the orders of the Russians! Just like they did with Sikorski!

And they didn't invite Kaczynski to the victory parade in London either!

Harry now your going mad ;)

I just wonder what's place of Polish prosecutor in this scheme? ;)

Olechka, Solnishko, I don't like Putin either but please put forward a single back for all these claims. This is just pointless to mention it as long as you've got no evidence. That's in fact a very serious accusation.


Excellent=the one that fits your views

Kaczynski was plane poisoned.He was brainwashed to believe soviet planes are the best.

My advice: Don't pose the question if you cannot bear the answer. Mark my words, you will see...

Was that addressed to me?

I don't know if that's been mentioned here, but I read an article, in yesterday's
"Nasz Dziennik", by Ryszard Drozdowicz from Aeordynamics Laboratory of the
Szczecin Polytechnic. Drozdowicz says that a pilot error is unlikely and that
the circumstances point to an intentional blockade of steering. The blockade
can be installed in a plane in such a way that it activates shortly before landing
when landing gear is opened. It causes an inevitable crash, making it impossible
to steer the lopsided plane.

I'm quite sure that the possibility of sabotage will be carefully investigated
(who might have conducted the sabotage is a completely different question).

Hopefully they've managed to preserve the chain of custody... from what's been reported, Poles have been with the CVR and the flight data recorder the entire time. Too much room for conspiracy otherwise.

Indeed. If any of you know anything about flying (or more importantly LANDING) a plane, then this doesn't seem like a very odd event (except that SO MANY VIPs were on board, and that they seemed unwilling to Divert, which could be down to politics, and the timing of the planned arrival, close to the time of the ceremony)

The pilots had landed in Smolensk Airbase before yes.
They could speak Russian yes this is true.
It is also true that this time there was heavy fog, visibility was less than the minimum for good landing, and the airport does not have the modern equipment for ILS landing.

For reasons we can guess at, but not yet know, the pilot decided to proceed with landing attempt anyway. Basically he is now depending on the tower radar to guide him in, as he can see only a VERY short distance ahead of him. Landing a big jet in good weather is a busy time for the pilot. Landing in fog with the tower trying to guide you in, speaking Russian, over terrain that is sloping upwards towards the road, is much trickier and does greatly increase the chances of crashing.

Unless someone has some good evidence I don't see how this was anything but an accident caused by a number of factors, including the weather, the airport equipment, and _possibly_, pressure on the pilot to get so many VIPs to an event that had great significance for the nation.

It may entertain some people to discuss conspiracy theories which are like idle gossip, but if you can't provide anything to back it up, you should perhaps wait, especially as the victims are not even all back home in Poland yet to be buried.

Certainly I think it's not to early to learn lessons from it, like not having so many VIPs on one plane in future, and if the airport is poorly equipped, to leave early so as to have time to divert to an alternate airport and still be on time for the appointment.

First off, I'd like to say that I am sorry this happened to the Polish People and the families of those on Board. My comments hopefully do not detract from your suffering.

It is well known to those who read a bit, that there are many people who would have liked President Kaczynski to get out of their way. This is no secret. Whether they would kill to achieve this is another story. I like most of us do not know, nor will we ever know, the truth of what happened. However, there are some interesting things to think about in regards to this conversation.

1. Look at the pictures/videos taken very shortly after the crash. Now look at the fog. Can that fog be responsible? I don't think so, but other opinions are welcomed.

2. Russia and Putin are perfect scapegoats. Of course, President Kaczynski was no great friend of Russia, and suspicion of conspiracy would fall right to them.

3. However, European countries had more reasons to rid themselves of the Nationalist. His refusal to join the Euro being tops amongst them. Also consider that Poland was the ONLY European country with economic growth last year, showing the folly of joining the Euro. Tusk has no reservations about joining the Poverty inducing ECB. (A country without control of it's central bank, is bound for problems)

4. Even though the U.S. wanted to put missiles in Poland before, it was unneeded, and the new administration here may see more value in a Pro-neo-liberal Tusk than a missile shield that could be replaced easily by aircraft or submarines.

5. This plane was flying slowly, and even an old basic altimeter would show how close the ground was. Did they have a new pilot flying all these people? Was the pilot drunk?

If not, I find it hard to believe he would have such a stupid accident flying.

There is more to this than meets the eye in my opinion. But I really don't know. I'm just asking questions. I would like to know the truth. I doubt any of us ever will, but don't just say this thin fog caused this, that seems too silly to be called reality. The global neo-liberal elite have no problem slaughtering millions of people around the world. They would kill planeloads of people everywhere if they thought it would benefit them. If I was Polish or had more time, I would dig deeper into this. Search youtube for: First photos (or videos) of Plane crash kills Polish President. Or something along those lines. From what I have seen, that fog shouldn't be a killer. Not to a pilot with ANY amount of experience. Pilots all over the world land in worse conditions everyday. And the pilot carrying the Polish heads of everything can't? Smells like rotten carp to me.

Good luck to the people of Poland. Peace to All. ~ryan

*edit* Add to the above, that language protocol was broken during landing. The released black box recording shows the Polish pilot speaking halting russian. If this were a cargo plane of goats, no big deal, but with so many important people on board? There are too many things that smell funny.

I guess if the crashed plane was full of Shiftars Crow would not stop mourning.

Yes, I believe so.
On the picture of the crash site taken from satellite it can be seen that plane was likely to approach from aside at acute angle, i.e it took wrong direction and got into woods (it's well seen on the picture that a borderline between field and woods is where plane's parts scattering starts and further into woods, where bigger parts lie, it finishes) instead of approaching airbase from direction where there are no woods. Maybe plane had approached airbase even from wrong end - it's hard to say at the moment what pilot really had seen.

Anyway I suppose that pilot might not see airbase well indeed due to thick fog.

I think all these conspiracy theories are rather silly.

polishmeknob.blogspot.com/2010/04/plane-crash-after-effects-conspiracy.html

That's my take on it.

Thanks for your reply

But going slow during landing approach, before hitting anything, the fog looks light enough from what I've seen, that a decent pilot would have seen the mistake and lifted back up for another attempt. Also, wasn't the last attempt one of 3 of 4 attempts?? During that time, he couldn't have gotten close to the right approach angle? The fog isn't that bad! I mean, maybe if you are trying to land an F-15 on a aircraft carrier maybe, but this? I don't know.

*edit* For last poster:

I agree that many of the conspiracy theories are silly. But I also think a plane crashing in light fog with the entire nationalist Polish leadership, under these circumstances, is silly as well. Sad, but silly. You do understand the questions under these circumstances? Here in the U.S. we are lied to about everything all the time. This breeds conspiracy theories. We don't ever know what to believe. Our mainstream media (msm) is bought and sold like bread in the market. So, we don't expect the truth from the media reports. This crash is extremely questionable no?

*edit* I'm listening to radio program about the crash right now. According to Webster Tarpley, who doesn't think that it's likely that it was anything but an accident btw, that it was the 4th attempt. The plane had dumped it's fuel. He also claims that the Euro was going to be hurt by the Former President's plan to devalue the Polish currency.

I'm not saying this was murder, or done on purpose by anyone, just that it smells fishy.

Peace

I suppose that fog looks lighter on the pictures and videos of crash site in Web than it was at the time of crash (about 10.50 am local time).

I have already mentioned on the previous page of this thread that a local guy wrote at 11.32 local time on a Smolensk forum (down the page here) forum.smolensk.ws/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48375

that fog is so thick that he can hardly see ground from his 9th floor flat.

*edit* @Polishmeknob

I wouldn't take too much validity of the blog you link to. While I disagree with most conspiracy theorists on most things, 9-11 was an inside job. I have no doubt about that. Neither does the U.S. engineering community. Anyone who dismisses "9-11 truthers" as nut jobs doesn't know anything other than what is fed to them. 9-11 cannot be explained by the official story, as MIT (Americas best university) engineering professors attest to in lectures that are posted online.

AGAIN, this doesn't prove anything about this crash, I'm just saying the official story isn't always the truth. Journalism is dead. The questions have to be asked an answered by the populace these days, not the "experts" paraded out immediately after the disaster that say things like "there is no conspiracy, don't believe it". The American court system charges people with conspiracy every day. All a conspiracy is, is a plan by a group of two or more people to commit a crime. It isn't equal to crazy, regardless of what some would say.

@karamba

Thank you. The pictures I have seen were supposedly from 3 minutes after crash. Is this incorrect? Or was fog lighter at the airport? Thanks!

It may seem lighter on ground where fog condenses than it is at some dozen meters height, I suppose.

if only some people could read before writing/speaking.

That's a great piece you have there, man! Chapeau...Congrats, that's one of the best pieces I've read in a long time. Especially like this part:


I could've written that - indeed, moronic 9/11 truthers :)


Actually amazing how a gossip can (and is allowed to) lead such a long life. One of the 9/11 conspiracies was that Larry Silverstein would gain from the insurance money - which in turn "proved" the participation of the Jews in the whole thing. Well, it turns out that Larry Silverstein still pays the rent for the WTC and he didn't even get the whole lump sum of the insurance, in any way, whatever he gained is now lost on rent paid as he didn't get anything else in profit from the WTC.


They don't even bother, because if they would, they might just become confused about their own theories and then their entire raison d'être is gone. Yes, some ppl live for the conspiracy. It's a modern (Polish-) American classic.


Of course it can - it's only in which way you would feel the foundation of your theories lost by accepting the facts.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

MareGaea, just admit it. You're getting a residual check from 9/11 aren't you?

Actually I do. I get every month a little glass flask with some authentic WTC dust. And I am mighty happy with it; I nearly have the collection complete - next month when dust from floor 79 comes it, it's complete.

Edit: but seriously, if Silverstein wanted to fraud the insurance, why would he do it only two to three weeks ahead of the attacks? Why would a smart guy like him do it so obviously? Not even the dumbest insurance fraudster does it that short upfront...

>^..^<

M-G (hunters and collectors)

I did read it. thanks.

And really, some people aren't interested in the truth. Of course, maybe you should look in the mirror when you say that. I don't give a rats tail about Larry Silverstein. You can pick and choose what you want from a lot of people saying lots of crazy things. Fact is, it was about taking away the civil liberties in the United States, and going to (perpetual) war with the muslim world for oil, pipelines and petro DOLLARS. Of course some people benefited financially, particularly security companies, but that is the least of the issues to me. But again, keep on believing the impossible if you wish. Hopefully someday, you will learn to look at all the facts, otherwise you are no better than a sheep.

Of course, if this is your attitude, you aren't interested in finding the truth out about this crash either, so I will leave you to your own devices.

Move along folks, nothing to see here. Oh yes master, I agree. Sheesh.

Good luck to the Polish people. Peace, ~r

I am sure that anyone who knows me on here will know that was never my intention...but if anyone was hurt by anything i said you can be sure i am sorry for that....

If it helps any , i will make no further comment on this matter....but i suspect this thread will continue quite well without me...

I dont think Kaczynski was important enough to be assasinated. Most people didnt even know he existed.
But I suspect that the Russians (who are sick of hearing about the Kattyn murders) saw this as an ideal opportunity to put one over the docile Poles.

Never trust a Russian.....history has certainly thought us that much.

I am sorry, but I cannot understand these conspiracy theories, if the Russians wanted to assassinate the Polish President, then why? What would it achieve? Nothing. At the moment, Russia is trying to heal old wounds, to build bridges, the Russians know that Poland will be a key player in 'New Europe', and Poland will be an important trading partner and a bridge into the EC.

Really, if the Russians wanted to eliminate the President I am quite sure they could have done it more discreetly, but again, to what purpose?

I apologise, these conspiracy theories are very entertaining, but they don't hold water.