Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom?

the same, in 2001, everyone rejected the obvious , that the WTC towers were full of explosives and it was just a prepared controlled demolition.

Because at that time, most people thought "oh the american government could not kill 3000 of its own people"

Then everyone saw how the american government killed some thousands more of its own people in petro dollars wars all over the middle east, and killed few millions civilians irakians, just for MONEY and POWER

I also heard Polish officials were initially barred and even physically restrained from getting access to the crash site. There should be an international investigation at this point. The Polish government is being stalled and manipulated, giving the Russians plenty of time to doctor the data as they wish, with ex-KGB master at the helm. Poland is in the EU--they should call on the EU to start an inquiry. ASAP.

Good idea, then the EU can join everybody else in saying "The problem was that some arrogant prick ordered the pilot to land despite it not being safe to land".

Well, Interpol or another similar agency should be invited onto the scene for fair play and balance. They were indeed barred and restrained but maybe so they wouldn't tamper with anything or alter the site until the authorities arrived.

What equipment was allegedly removed? I find it hard to believe that Tusk, while disliking Lech as a President, would knowingly send all those people to their deaths. That's why I have to question his complicity. I think he is innocent, as the Russians are. People more versed in certain technologies may find another possible line as to how the Russians may have been 'in on it' but it would he hard to prove.

See this link NOW:
tupolev.ru/English/Show.asp?SectionID=136
I am not referring to any damned flap tracks!!!

Yes, I looked at the link.

And still can't find any nozzles from which fuel could be dumped. I see the flap track coverings. Those are the big white things sticking out under the flaps. I just can't see any nozzles here. Maybe my eyes are bad... Does anyone else see them?

[quote=famd]Surprise, the black boxes of the POLISH PLANE were confiscated by the russians,
and kept secret. So they can be doctored in the last 6 days anyway they wanted.

This is a LIE.

The black boxes have been investigated by the joined team of Russian and Polish experts. From Polish side, the following people lead the investigation:
1) Edmund Klich, head of the State Commission for Aviation Accident Investigation under the Ministry of Infrastructure of Poland;
2) Ms Ewa Kopacz, Polish Minister of Healthcare;
3) Mr Krzysztof Parulski, Chief Military Prosecutor of Poland

From the Russian side, Ms. Tatyana Anodina, the head of the CIS Interstate Aviation Committee is investigating the crash. Here is the transcript of her latest report to the joint Polish-Russian commission:

The technical commission of the CIS IAC, which has been registered by the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) as an independent regional international organisation, is investigating the circumstances of the crash of the Tu-154 aircraft of the Polish state aviation with the participation of representatives of the Defence Ministry and federal bodies, and in close cooperation with the authorised representatives and a big group of experts from Poland.

All required experts are taking part in the commission's work - pilots, technical experts and specialists on meteorological flight support from research institutes and industrial companies of both countries. A joint working group has been decoding and analysing all flight information since the recorders were opened. Polish experts are providing us with important assistance in identifying the voices of the crew members and decoding other data. We then register everything jointly.

The sides keep the recorders in safes sealed by both sides. The work is conducted in Russian and English. We have full understanding on a professional and on a linguistic level.

The commission will complete its work to determine the trajectory of the plane's flight before the crash on the site today and will start bringing fragments of the aircraft from the site of the crash to a site next to the airport, which is under special surveillance.

We are analyzing all flight and technical documents together with Polish specialists. A tentative examination and analysis of the plane's fragments and decoding of the in-flight data of the recorders has established that the engines were operational until the impact and that there was no fire or explosion on board the plane.

The decoding of the in-flight data of the recorders and its analysis show that there were no failures of on-board equipment. Nevertheless, as the international regulations require, the final conclusions will be made after thorough examination of all the fragments. As it has already been reported, specialists are decoding and analysing all in-flight data of the recorders.

One more additional flight data recorder was found yesterday. The commission decided to meet the Polish side's request on its decoding with the participation of our experts in Poland. An air-check of the airfield's radio-technical facilities is scheduled for April 16.

I would like to emphasise once again that the investigation is being carried out in line with international procedures and regulations set by the ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization), which encompasses 190 states, including Russia and Poland.

Investigators from the European Union and other countries have expressed their willingness to participate in the work of the Technical Commission, should this be deemed necessary. However, these investigators have said that they do not doubt the impartiality and professionalism of either the Commission or Russian experts. IAC (Interstate Aviation Committee) specialists have extensive experience with international investigations, having conducted such investigations in 53 countries, none of which have thus far been contested.

Oh no! Everyone is in on it!

Okay ... so Poland’s chief prosecutor Andrzej Seremet has said something about the content of the black boxes. Military prosecutor Colonel Zbigniew Rzepa has called the recordings “dramatic”. Two Polish investigators ... not Russians. The contents of the BB's will be published.

Can we now stop the crap of blaming or accusing Russian investigators about holding back information? Can we now stop the crap of telling the rest of the world that the Russians wanted to kill LK? Or that they wanted to doctor (hahahaha) information on the black boxes?

Or do you believe that the Polish investigators are paid by the Russians to say so? Now give us all a break and stick to the FACTS.

There is broad-based cooperation and findings are to be shared. Still, there is an element of trust involved unless there is absolute transparency which I don't think there will be.

I don't think the contents are going to be published, Stu. Maybe snippets or fragments but not a transcript of the whole content and lawyers would insist on that in order to get the bigger picture.

There are none that i can see....The big mystery for me is....if these flap track coverings are actually fuel dump nozzles...how the hell do they operate the flaps....mind over matter perhaps...???

"Investigators are to release the dramatic, and tragic, recordings of the last moments of the TU-154 flight which crashed in Smolensk, western Russia on Saturday killing Lech Kaczynski and 95 others. "

This according to thenews.

I read this as the complete recordings of the last moments will be published. I'm sorry, I can't read anything else in it.

By who, Dubbings R Us?

Ahh ... and Colonel Krzysztof Parulski -PL (!!) investigator number 3- also had something to say. Now ... three in my humble opinion highly regarded investigators have given their statements. All paid by Russians to do so, or do you think they also want to know the truth?!

Edit:

By whom? By the Russians and the three PL-investigators. Please don't tell me that they won't cry foul if incorrect information is published ... .

I think your eyes are ok :)
You don't see them because there are none. Professional pilots on this forum w w w.pprune.org confirmed that Tu-154 does not have a fuel dumping system.

Fuel dumping system is not required if FAA requirements are met (the climb requirements of FAR 25.119 (Landing Climb) and FAR 25.121 (Approach Climb), regulation FAR 25.1001).

Most twinjet airliners meet these requirements, such as the Boeing 737 (all models), the DC-9/MD80 and A320 family. Tu-154 has THREE jet engines.

Case closed.

I doubt it....Olga will insist the Russians secretly swapped the flap control covers for fuel dump nozzles...therefore rendering the flaps useless and causing the crash....

:-) Good sense of humor!

There is an intensive debate going among the Russian professional pilots about the crash. A very interesting analysis was posted here:
h t t p://picasaweb.google.ru/Amlmtr/MWzNeJ#5459881356386012002

Sorry, the text is in Russian, but the picture is very interesting; the red line marked as "ideal landing path", and yellow is the actual path. Thick yellow line is the path change after the plane hit the tree.

Despite the fact i have a Russian girlfriend , and have some affection for the Russian people , especially one , i am more than willing to believe the Russkies had a hand in this disaster if there is one shred of evidence to suggest it , but there just isn,t....

Long standing distrust of the Russians is not evidence...!

That's not really that odd, there was no localizer to keep it lined up. From what I understand, they were flying an NDB approach which would mean that they'd only be flying based on heading. That's why the minimums are so high.

Well, true, although I think the distrust is well-deserved... I grew up in the USSR, and remember how disgusting was the government lying about Kursk, Chernobyl, etc. Things are getting better now, but it will take a long time (perhaps, several generations) to get rid of the old habits. So far though, I am reasonably impressed how things are handled in this case. Let's hope it stays this way.

No, the illuminati aren't. The Jews, the Commies, the fags, the Americans, the Rothchildes, Opus Dei, the Masons, the Famous Five, the Area 51 guys, al Qaeda, the Real IRA, Blake's 7, that bloke down the chip shop who swears he's Elvis, thingie, what's-his-name, the X-men, my cat, Hellboy, Alfred Sisley, Doctor Who, Linda Lovelace and the blokes from the grassy knoll: they're all in on it. But the illuminati aren't. And they are very piissed off about that.

You forgot the spinning meat on a stick mafia.

I'm with wildrover on this one. Some would love to see a Russian involvement but it just isn't there based on most likely scenario.

Belgian newspaper sneers over the Polish tragedy

When trying to decide friend or foe keep this in mind. (in Polish)

" We express our sorrow for publication - says the letter. - As a nation we have lost our President , our First Lady and 94 other high-ranking officials and citizens. As people lost friends and people where we really wanted . People from all over the world have shown us support and compassion . for this reason we even harder to understand why someone in the heart of the European Union would make a mockery of the tragedy " .

Earlier Polish Ambassador to Belgium Slawomir Czarlewski issued a strong protest to the editor of the newspaper , calling for the publication of an official apology on its pages . Poles who felt offended by the publication , they are asked to managing personal protests directly to the editor " Gazet van Antverpen " to increase the pressure . Intervention also announced honorary consul in Flanders.

They did the same thing after the bombing in Moscow metro, and refused to apologize. What can I say... some people have no soul.

**** i nearly called a pole 'greasy kebab-boy' didnt realise you couldnt call a pole 'greasy kebab-boy', thats the last time i nearly call a pole 'greasy kebab-boy. thanks for the warning

"That probe is moving fairly quickly, aviation experts said, but some Poles have complained about a lack of public information, including the transcript of conversation in the cockpit before the accident.

Jerzy Artymiak, spokesman for Polish military prosecutors, said one of three black boxes found will be brought to Poland later Thursday for analysis, while the other two continue to be examined in Russia.

Investigators had hoped to disclose contents of the flight recordings on Thursday, but Artymiak said they now plan to wait until after the weekend memorial ceremonies. There will be a state funeral for all the victims Saturday in Warsaw, and a separate funeral and burial of the presidential couple on Sunday in Krakow."

That probe is moving fairly quickly, aviation experts said, but some Poles have complained about a lack of public information, including the transcript of conversation in the cockpit before the accident.

Jerzy Artymiak, spokesman for Polish military prosecutors, said one of three black boxes found will be brought to Poland later Thursday for analysis, while the other two continue to be examined in Russia.

Investigators had hoped to disclose contents of the flight recordings on Thursday, but Artymiak said they now plan to wait until after the weekend memorial ceremonies. There will be a state funeral for all the victims Saturday in Warsaw, and a separate funeral and burial of the presidential couple on Sunday in Krakow.

1. Investigation moving rapidly according to experts. So why barely a word in the news from the Polish side? Notice who's doing all the talking. Media manipulation.

2. Complaints on Polish side of lack of information. Who would have thought? *sarcasm*
3. Russians handing over black boxes to Polish officials at their leisure and convenience. Russia first, Poland gets leftovers. Who cares if it was a Polish-owned plane. Russia is boss.

4. All black boxes have been in the possession of the Russians. How "open" and "transparent" of them!
5. Contents of flight recordings now will not be disclosed until after the weekend, not Thursday as had been announced earlier. Apparently, Russia needs an extension to complete doctoring to their satisfaction, maneuvering behind Polish grief as an excuse.

These facts speak for themselves--is anybody listening?

gave up on fuel dumping eh?

You sound like a child.

You sound like you're for the investigation to be at the whim of Russia. Typical, coming from you.

Interfax news agency quoted what it said was a source close to the investigation commission saying the pilots did not seem to have been under pressure from Kaczynski.

"So far there is no evidence that any of the high-ranking passengers demanded that the pilots land at Smolensk. The voice recorder, whose decoding has been completed, did not register any pressure on the crew from their conversation," it said.

kyivpost.com/news/world/detail/64039/

The story of Kaczynski ordering the plane to land is ********. But I already knew that because I'm not blinded by state-sponsored propaganda.