Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom?

Sorry, I don't :)


This is your best argument!

Look at the damn photos!! I have seen these planes close up myself at air shows.

It is Tu-154. I fly them. And what?

Jed
You are so full of s**t! If you fly them you would know they have fuel dumping system!!
All you do is negate and negate, and when confronted with irrefutable evidence your only recourse is more squealing. Typical ignoramuses. Putin's perfect pupil's...

What a waste of empty space...

Sorry, Olga, you are really not competent in aviation.

You can ask Yandex the request "emergency fuel dump", and you'll get tens of links to the aviation discussions which confirm the fact the Tu-134 and Tu-154 are not equipped with on-air fuel dump system.

I have provided the list of Soviet-type airplanes that do have it in the previous comment.

The range of Tu-154 is similar to that that of Boeing-737, it is a medium range aircraft.
Tu-154: 5,280 kilometres (3,280 mi)
Boeing-737-300 to 500: 2,270–2,400 nmi (4,200–4,400 km; 2,610–2,800 mi)
Boeing-737-600: 3,050 nmi (5,650 km)

If that was true, you would give the direct link--and not to some half-baked website, either. The link I gave you CLEARLY shows fuel dumping jets at rear of wings. But obviously you are blind old man.

Jed, what are you...Russian National propaganda artist? Nevermind...the answer is obvious. You must s**t a lot from eating all that crap, and excess goes to your brain.

That's just stupid. I (and everyone around) know exactly the opposite to what you are saying. Most people have access to the Internet, and anything that goes into Internet can never be hidden with no traces.

If this crash had been filmed, it would have been on YouTube already a few days ago, regardless of what Putin or state mass-media would think about it.

You are trying to convince innocent listeners to believe incredible pieces of crap. Russians are aware of the IT and Internet capabilities no worse than people in America and in Poland, and know well where they need to go to broadcast something they think needs to be shown. Like a mobile phone video after the blast at "Park Kultury" which appeared on YouTube a day after the blast.

There is just nothing to show. This was not the crash video. Not the same plane, not the same day.

The range of the Tu is about 1000km more than a 733, and less than a 738. The Tu does carry about twice as much fuel though....but, MTOW on the Tu is 100 tons, MLW is 80 tons. No reason to dump on that flight, even if there was a possibility.


Where at? There are quite a few photos there. I don't see any with a nozzle for dumping fuel.

Easy.
h t t p://w w w.avsim.su/forum/topic/39032-faq-po-pt-tu-154-dlya-nachinaushih/page__ st__700
Message #718 from Tender Cat.
Reads (translated): there is no emergency dumping of fuel on Tu-154 of all modifications. The captain makes a decision to continues the journey to destination or to circulate above the airport of origin until the fuel is burnt to reach maximum landing weight. In emergency cases the captain is allowed to land with excessive landing weight.

That "half-baked website" cited before contains a Tu-154 fuel system description. In a professional language, though.

Regarding the photos - I simply do not trust explanations of the incompetent people. You must very precisely point where a fuel discharge pipeline exit at the rear of the wings is located, and do not just speculate thinking that people are so blind to believe you, knowing that the experts say otherwise.

I only see that Putin-devil is in your foggy head - you just not read and don't see anything except "proofs" for your fobias...

I'm happy that you have no power and weapons - when people of your kind get power and weapons we see awful results - like mass murders in Katyn as an example.

I will give you another version from mirrored paranoids: Mr Kaczynski was sacrificed by
somebody (like you) interested to destroy progress in relations betwen Russia and Poland/EU because he failed to do that and became "useless". Do you like that?

Amateurs on forums are no experts, and the photo in the link I posted clearly shows the system at rear of wings. Go back to sleep. You don't have a clue.


Very first photo on the first page. Left wing. See the objects on the wing that resemble "nozzles", for lack of a better word? It's the white slanted down part with the 3 parts extending out. Those are the discharge ports.

You mean these?

And a bit higher res here.

Exactly. Here are links for what fuel dump looks like:
youtube.com/watch?v=AbTm3G--wYo
youtube.com/watch?v=RlaUOEa2UGY&feature=related

And here is another link of simulated Tu-154 training flight showing these "nozzles", one on each side of wing. Tupolevs vary with how many nozzles they actually have, according to their fuel capacity. The greater the fuel capacity the more nozzles, for quicker dumping.

youtube.com/watch?v=y0NleLNgNLI&feature=related

ieportal.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=6&min=30&orderby=dateA&show=10

Second file from the top. Detailed schematic of TU-154M fuel system in AutoCad DWG format.

Anyone with eyes connected to something valuable may look and make their own conclusion.

Those are covers for the flap tracks. Take a look at that second picture, no nozzles anywhere to be seen.

It is well known that Tupolevs are gas guzzlers, therefore aviation specifications REQUIRE that they be equipped with a fuel dumping system; precisely because they have a high fuel capacity. Their gas guzzling is one of the main reasons they were being phased out. Come on, people, this isn't rocket science. I have been on 2 commercial flights myself in which a fuel dump took place and outlet ports on the wings is where the fuel is ejected. What more proof do you need? This isn't rocket science. Well, actually, it appears that for some here it is...

Later.

Did you look on the data sheet?

Yes I did look on the data sheet. The PDF file I posted shows a variety of Tups, the second photo isn't a 154, I don't think. Why would witnesses testify that they saw it dumping fuel if it didn't? Isn't witness testimony more valid than what propaganda would have you believe? After all, what the he'll do witnesses have to gain? WAKE UP. You want to prove how smart you all are--go to an aviation museum--I have one in my city--or research avionics at a library.

You're right, it's not. Look at the picture.

You're right about the Tu drinking a lot of fuel. You're wrong about there being a law that requires it to be able to dump fuel. The Tu can legally land over weight. Fuel consumption in the first hour is close to 11 tons, settling down to about 7 tons per hour in cruise. MTOW on the Tu is 100 tons, MLW is 80 tons, the maximum structural landing weight is 100 tons. That's the same logic that lead to Boeing not having to equip the 737 with the ability to dump fuel.

From my point it is not a problem - it is very easy to check with black boxes as most of your previous blames regarding technical details we are not in position to test.

On this forum we may only guess about motives. How you find a version of your counterparts (not officials) - see above?

I think it would just be easier to accept what Olga is saying , because its pretty obvious she will not accept anything other than total Russian blame for this crash , and no amount of facts will convince her it was an accident...

She has even argued the facts with a guy who flies the dam aircraft type....

Nothing is going to change her mind...lets just agree with what she says or we will never hear the last of it...

The objects on the figures are not gas nozzles. There is also no specification that requires Tu-154 to have them. There is an official permission for Tu-154 to land with excess weight up to MTOW in emergency case such as engine fire, hence there is no reason to have it.

Some witnesses may THINK they have seen the fuel dumping, but really they didn't. Clearly, most witnesses are not aviation engineers.

You know what I find so repugnant among many on this forum? Their blind zeal to so willingly throw the victims under the proverbial bus. First, by blaming Kaczynski for forced landing (with no proof whatsoever and witness accounts that refute that i.e. fuel dumping), then, when that got old and worn out, by blaming an experienced pilot like he's some two-cent amateur off the street, meanwhile blindly gulping down the convenient version of an old foe. Doesn't say much about your guys' intellect or common sense but, rather, lack thereof.

Meanwhile Olga goes in circles dumping her fuel here :) I will wait for official reports.

Show us where the fuel would leave the wing, and we'll all be quiet.

Kind of like you THINK everyone is as dumb as you?


Like the official reports of Katyn for over five decades? Your naïveté is a disease. This forum looks like moron-central.

Surprise, the black boxes of the POLISH PLANE were confiscated by the russians,
and kept secret. So they can be doctored in the last 6 days anyway they wanted.

And now, there are some russians posting here, who are saying that we should blindly believe the russian "official version" , like we all did with Katyn also for lots of years... just so easy and convenient...

Olga keep it up you are doing a great job

Why to even use our heads or brains... let's just wait to be spoonfed a new "official version" from the russians and let's blindly believe it...

Even if the same pilot on the same plane but with Tusk, 3 days before, landed without any problems on the very same airport in Smolensk

Here are Tupelov 154 photos CLEARLY showing, to those who are not blind and retarded, fuel ejectors on wings:
tupolev.ru/English/Show.asp?SectionID=136

Witnesses can be put in place to say any old thing. Being kids means that they have no axes to grind and Russians know that. I'm not saying they were planted there but it is suspect how Russian journalists had the monopoly that day. I heard that the cameras of Polish journalists were taken away.

Russia learned very well from 9/11 that conferences will be held, evidence will be ping-ponged back and forth and that allegations will fly. Still, can the American government be held accountable beyond reasonable doubt? Not when there is such blocking and denial I'd say.

Now, this is not to say that Russia did anything. I am suspicious but I think that they were not fiddling here. It would simply be too risky and so many experts around the world are working on it so they wouldn't want to be sprung.

You do realize that you think that flap track coverings are fuel ejectors, right? I gave you a beautiful hi res shot of a Tu-154s wing and asked to point out where the "fuel ejectors" are. You couldn't do that. Find me one reference on this big wide internet of a Tu-154 dumping fuel. Just a single one, and we'll all be quiet and get back to FSB headquarters.