Poles, Polonians and aliens on Pussy Riot?

I think we should tell Putin that Justin Bieber has been singing nasty songs about him.

If only Putin had a sense of humor...

Putin is perhaps the best leader from all European nations.
The more north and west you go the more currupt they get.

Here is a scenario...
The whining wicked west likes to whine and whine about Putin and his "unfair" treatment.

Lets take Obongo as an example:
1)There are SOME innocent people siting in Guatanamo for over a decade. Treated like the lowest people.
I dont see the huge media talking about this.

2)It is "ok" for police to beat up protesters and kill people without ever getting in trouble.
But the Russian leaders charged these feminist ******* and Obama starts whining.
Hey Obongo, wow about USA (the most currupt nation in the western world) fixes problems in their own country instead
of forcing their DISGUSTING filth towards other nations.
The fact is Putin has supporters around the globe for what hes doing. Of course the Zionist/WASP media will never say anything.

What exactly were they protesting?

Putin had the majority vote and was voted in (albeit a foregone conclusion),

I have not looked into this in-depth but the one thing that I saw was Vladimir Mikhailovich Gundyayev AKA "Mikhailov" ( a Russian Orthodox bishop who has been Patriarch of Moscow and all the Rus' and Primate of the Russian Orthodox Church) and Putin's very strong link to the KGB.


So what in particular was the protest about, is my question?

Oh, you are such a laugh, aren't you?

Go and learn about en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siloviki before you speak further, child.

This means nothing to me. Go bomb some more innocent people. Maybe you'll sqeeze some democracy up their ass.

People seem to forget that PR were sh!tty, talentless and unknown musicians that did this crap purely for self-promotion, and it got completely blown out of proportion by left-leaning media. It's funny how so-called "freedom fighters" tried to tack on some political agenda to it.

If some punk rock dudes from UK bypassed security, broke into Buckingham Palace, pissed on the floor and shouted stuff like "fvck the Queen!", I doubt they'd get away with it just because they're "petitioning vs. monarchy". They're hooligans, and should be treated as such

PR are shameless attention seekers, I'd call them retarded but that would be an offense to actual mentally challenged people.

What political message they could be trying to put forward is beyond me, if anything they're just giving ammunition to the regime in the way of "watch out people, this kind of inane sh!t is what the opposition stands for".

They are showing extremely bad taste and likely dissillusioning everyone except a few fringe weirdos and already anti Putin people.
I think there is plenty of reason to be upset with Putin and his government but is this really the kind of protest that is going to draw positive attention to their issues?

If that's the case they should be ignored not thrown to jail.

Lenka
Exactly. The paranoid 'right-wing' normally want to have their cake and eat it while putting emotion above common sense. Many of the posts in this thread are no exception.

You say this, while living in a country which actively supports US wars.

So am I to understand that nobody actually knows what the protest was about in particular?

They were protesting about the church telling the faithful how to vote.

SeanBM,And they criticized Putin as well as the Church which obviously supports him.Maybe not direct protest of Putin,but this is who they angered and is why their sentence was so stiff.

I'm no Russophile (the opposite is probably closer to the truth!), but standing back and trying to be impartial I think Putin may be the best thing for the Russian people in their present state of mind and stage of developoment. Thta's an awfully huge country with myriad problems of every kind. Piłsudski also didn't treat people with kid gloves, but a lighter rule would have undoutbedly led to even more chaos and unrest than there already was back then.

I have russian best pals and they beleive in class and to eliminate anything that comes in there path.....IN states i follow that but in eastern europe I love that...being a small very succesfull business person I love it...take ur crap let me move forward,get my things done and on my way.When in Moscow with my son and his pal we loved how we were treated by some construction businessmen who I had known from m Polish business contacts was amazing and daring for the kids in 07 who were 15 at that time still remember and would like that world at there maturity knowing real life and not a struggling life.

MoOli,I'd love to go check out Russia,I have no problem with Russians,but I don't trust Putin at all.

p3undone
P3 dude if you really want and have time get in touch and ill show u LIFE IS REALLY* GOOD! among ruskis especially if you have contacts Istayed wid 2 boys(my son and his pal) there for 10 days or so in 07..business is at boom there..honestly when i come to states I feel im in a village...never seen life style they live there ud be surprised....im tellin u.

ABSOLUTELY!!! It was obviously more about attention for PR than it was a protest against anything Russian.

Oh, and as for churches telling people how to vote? They do it all the time.

Cheers, thanks.


Do you mean to suggest it is acceptable then?

If a US church did that, they'd lose their 501 C tax exemption, which is why they don't.

Nothing wrong with it!

A certain church appears not to think there is, as shown below:

Oh but they do, Harry. Do you think for one minute churches do not influence the people who attend them to vote for the conservative, Republican candidate? Not all of them do, but a lot. They want the conservative candidate to win. Churches are behind a lot of these campaigns.


Ideally there should be no vote influencing but that's far from reality. All sorts of interests work to influence the vote. Just someone disclosing their party and bragging about who they vote for is influencing it. Ideally, people are quiet about such matters. They go in the voting booth, they vote and they come out without saying a word about who they voted for before or after. Not a lot of people do this.

I see a lot of signs for candidates around the voting center, too. Is that not much different than churches telling people who to vote for?

Indeed, but the Church seems to be singled out for muzzling. During the first free presidential election Warsaw University professors were notorious for openly lobbying in lecture halls for Mazowiecki, and the media somehow had no problem with that, even thouhg UW is a state instituion. But the Wybiórcza crowd homed in on any priest who spoke out in favouru of Wałęsa and such clerics of allegedly 'meddling in politics'. The Church is a private institution like the Canary Breeders Associaton and others. There is no law saying that a non-state instituion or organisaiton cannot express its voting preference.

You say "Singled out", I don't see companies advertising their political views, you don't see Coke and Pepsi saying they are Republicans or Democrats, do you? (although the oil backed political leaders may have a different view :)

I don't believe that the church should be involved in state affairs unless there is human rights violations, then I believe it is the right for everyone to speak out.


The Vatican say the same thing:


you blame? :)


Many countries are to blame of mixing State and Religion, the changing of the Pledge of Allegiance in the U.S.A. to "under God" in 1954, the British with state-funded faith schools teaching creationism, never mind what my place of birth did with the mix of state and Church...

I won't pretend to know much about Russia.
But in Poland, I may be wrong, the church was a force against communism during those years:


/wiki/Relations_between_the_Catholic_Church_and_the_state#Elsewhere_in_Europe

And not forgetting Pawian's excellent thread: polishforums.com/history-poland-34/communism-fell-years-ago-poland-led-fight-since-ww-35430

which also marks the role the Church had in the assemblage of the people against communism.

But the question for some seems to be 'when is the fight over'?

Tadeusz Rydzyk is a good example of what I am talking about:



or the The cross in Polish parliament.

But I get the feeling that the ex-KGB lads in Russia do not share that same history, or do they?

Depending on your idea of separation of church and state.
Sane christians believe in the separation of church and state, not the separation of religion and state. So, no churches or denominations of anykind wielding political power, but religious people should have a say in how their country is ruled, because said religions are part of their ethnics/point of view that form their traditions. Atheists lefists want a magical world where religion is something just done in private, inside a metaphysical little janitor closet away from the rest of society, like its something to be ashamed of.

Forget commerciall companies. Pepsi ain't gonna put up a billboard saying 'Vote for Romney'. But executives can try to influence their employees behind the scenes. My question was: what is the difference between a university professor openly lobbying for a candidate in a lecture hall to a priest doing likewise during a sermon? The Michnik mob never made a peep about the professor (after all he was backing the 'correct' candidate Mazowieckii -- now you know why his rag is called Wybiórcza!), but what a stink they raise when a man of the cloth supports a different candidate or undertaking than the 'one, true, chosen nation' alternative.

The basic question is: Does someone whose occupation is being a clergyman have less rights to express his view on public affairs than a TV commentator or taxi driver? If so, which law imposes such a ban on free speech? And when you say the Church should or shouldn't do this or that, you seem to be forgetting that we believers are the Church. I'm sure Michnik and other leftist-liberal scum would love to muzzle (or better yet) liquidate us all, but the necessary feasiblity study has yet to be completed!

You also forget that many Church-goers are Gazeta Wyborcza reading and are completely against the Church interference in State affairs. I know several people who have walked out of churches after hearing rubbish about politics - can't you see the harm that's done by aligning themselves with one faction or another?

I also know many people who will not go to a church that openly supports Radio Maryja. These people are Catholics, yet they're completely disgusted with what elements of the Church are doing. Are they any less Catholic than you? Of course not.

You completely skirted the question as to whether the uni professor, TV commentator and taxi driver were out of line by publicly voicign their views to a captive audience!

People are free to storm out of church, not listen to Radio Maryja and actually read Wybiórcza (rather than using it solely to wrap yesterday's garbage in), but is a clergyman by virtue of his profession automatically deprived of his civil rights and freedom of speech? Oto jest pytanie!

They do of course or are you suggesting they don't?
But a 'sane' religious person can not expect us to live on a literal interpretation of the bible (or an illiterate one either ;)


Quite honestly, professors should also remain impartial unless there is a human rights issue, same as the church.
It is one of the worst things that many people/organisation teach you what to think and not how.


A T.V. presenter should also be impartial or at least the station should allow both parties to voice their opinions.

As for a taxi driver, not really the same thing, unless you have ever really changed your political persuasion on what you heard in a cab? :)

In case you missed my main point, it's that all people, be they clergy, taxi drivers or professors should talk out about human rights issues but should keep their sexual orientation, political views and bowel movements out of the ear of the masses.

All I can presume about your blaming Wybiórcza is that there was a power vacuum and a little anarchy on what was acceptable methods of pushing your candidate to the forefront.