Poles, Polonians and aliens on Pussy Riot?

Kondzior,the picture showed something on the street and the church wasn't even in the picture.I can tell you what would happen;they would go to jail, but by the same token,if they went into a mosque and started a concert decrying Obama because they didn't like his politics and were removed from the church,there would have been a big up cry,No one would have went to jail because a place of worship is open to all.I'm not condoning their behavior and I think it was very disrespectful,but being given a stiff sentence was for another reason altogether.

right..

This guy drew a Mohammed cartoon. Desecrating a mosque would be much more direct. Specially if they did a "Punk prayer" involving islamic screeds

Kondzior,I don't know where that is,but it's not in the states.It's different in the states..

According to wiki Theo Van Gogh was murdered as he was cycling to work in the early morning of 2 November 2004, in front of the Amsterdam East borough office on the corner of the Linnaeusstraat and Tweede Oosterparkstraat.


Try Reform Judaism temple in NYC... Attach the signs potesting Jews backing Obamah, knock down the Torah and Mennorah and wait for Clinton, Madonna Merkel and Ashton to defend your freedom of expression ...ERRR.. I mean slam you for Hate Crime, Antisemitism and Xenophobia

So you're suggesting the offended Russian Orthodox people should take a leaf from the murderer of Theo van Gogh's book?

I suggest you compare Russian reaction to this.


Why are you lying?
It was inside the church,they re-painted Saint Marry' portraits as well. (adding a ski mask)

You can protest a supermarket without going inside and making a circus without the owner's permission. There is a difference between protesting and trespassing + disruption. Freedom of speech means you can say whatever you want, it does not mean you can do whatever you want as long as you tag politics to it.

But hey, who gives a damn about your butthurt. Pusy Riot will be spending two years in Glorious Mother Russia's underbelly no matter how much you rage on the Internet.

Kondzior,we're talking legalities,if you go in any building and start destroying things or making hate fueled racial comments,then you go to jail.They sang out against Putin and they offended the fundamentalists.Things are different in the U.S. especially with the C.L.U.

The United Nations have encouraged Governments to include ' Blasphemy laws' in their penal code which have been used to dish out heavy handed jail terms the world over, especially within Asia and the Middle East:

FOR OVER A DECADE, efforts have been made in several venues at the United Nations to promote the concept that States have an obligation to adopt and enforce laws against the "defamation of religions." Some of the countries that support these efforts already have such legislation in place in the form of blasphemy or similar laws that prohibit injuring religious sentiments or insulting religious figures and leaders. Those who support the concept of "defamation of religions" argue that prohibitions such as these are necessary to fight incitement to discrimination, hostility, and violence, as well as to protect freedom of religion.

Blasphemy laws provide a context in which governments can prevent the peaceful expression of political or religious views, including those on the role of religion in law, society, and the state. By restricting these essential freedoms in the name of protecting religion from defamation, governments are able to stifle the healthy debate and discussion of ideas and essentially determine which ideas are acceptable and which are not. Teachers and students, clergy and congregants, writers and journalists, web and social media users have suffered prosecution under national blasphemy and related laws for exercising their right to freedom of expression.

humanrightsfirst.org/wp-content/uploads/Blasphemy_Cases.pdf

Warsawski,they should have been asked to leave,As there is no blasphemy law in place and I don't see how they actually destroyed or defaced the building or incited a major riot,the sentence is too stiff.Russians have a lot of fundamentalists;so I'm not surprised that many would find the sentence fair,Putin seized the opportunity.

Define fundamentalist, please.

Kondzior,my bad,religious fundamentalists.

That much I got. Define the difference between religious fundamentalist and just a religious guy. Is according to you everyone non-atheist being a fundamentalist?

Kondzior,a religious person can be flexible;where as fundamentalists are not and stick staunchly with their dogma.

So if one if not flexible enough to think that debauchery and indecent exposure in public places, vandalism and desecration of religious locations is very "nice", and Obongo the kenyan affirmative action president and Madonna that old plastic attention seeking lady really are fighting for dem freedumz and goodness in the world, one is religious fundamentalist?

Liberals love the decadence. It is what they are about. That these women are "heroes" to them shows it.

Thats not really the issue in Russia.
Russian Nationalism ties its self to the Church as a belated counter reaction to the Soviet era.
Its deeper than that,its not religion above country but religion being country with a lot of Russians.
Even Stalin recognised this and re opened the Churches he hadnt destroyed in the 20s and 30s when the nazis were nearing the gates of Moscow.

So,the Putinites ,the young drones from Nashi etc see the protest for exactly what it was,an attack on the twin pilars of nationalism, the *big man* at the helm and the Patriarch at the spiritual helm.

They knew what they were doing,they will not have expected a stern telling off and a few hours street cleaning,but,saying that,anyone who knows Russia knows the fastest way to hurt opposition is to support it from the west.

Kondzior,you asked for a definition;I gave it.I'm not a liberal btw.The fundamentalists have every right to be offended by their behavior and they have a strong base in Russia.You can read anything you want into what I have said.We are talking legalities.I find their actions very disrespectful,but you'll never convince me that that is not a ridiculous sentence or that it's not motivated by who they have offended;namely Putin.

For fek sake, its not the 16th century, get your head out your arse you daft old puritan.....

These silly girls danced around in very demure dresses with barely an inch of flesh on show.....

FBI profilers would have a field day with your reaction...images of human skin collections in your attic would probably not be too far fetched a hypothosis.

In yiour books, is someone who goes to church on Sunday a religous fundamnetalist?

Polonius3,Someone who sticks staunchly to the tenets of their faith are fundamentalists and there is nothing wrong in being so,but no one should try to make others adhere to their morality.Freedom of belief is just that;freedom of belief.That's not even the issue in this case,It's about who they offended,not so much what they did.

I'd narrow it down a bit and say that a fundamentalist holds an inflexible interpretation of religious minutiae and believes those principles are inerrant and should be imposed on others.

Jon357,agreed.

If they did something illegal, they have to do the time just like everywhere else. You can't just bust into a church, act crazy and call it a protest or freedom of speech. There's permits and stuff like that to honor. If they didn't go through the appropriate channels, then they have to pay the fine or do the time or whatever it is that's required in Russia. If they don't like it, they should have educated themselves on the penalty before doing it and thought twice.

They did what they did because they saw that the Church is hand-in-glove with the Putin adminstration. Their actions were distasteful to many people (myself included) and I believe they should have respected the property rights of the owners. Nevertheless, the sentence given by the Russian court has been viewed by a great number of people (myself included) as being grossly disproportionate.

Russia as a country is in danger of repeating old sins in another guise. Totalitarianism, whether in the form of Soviet Communism, theocracy, or a convenient accommodation of the two is no basis for social or political progress. And neither is suppression of a few young people making a point. "Why break a butterfly upon a wheel."

Actually, more of these types of sentences are needed. If you want to protest, there are much better, more effective ways as seen on Facebook and Twitter. You get people together and you protest out in the open. You do not bust into a private place and stage protests and expect people to say, "fine, it's your freedom of speech." If I owned a church or a business, I would want protection under the law from these types of random events.

not in russia

teflcat,If they had broke into the church,then they would have had more serious charges I'm sure.They had the audacity to protest Putin and this is what that sentence was about.I agree with you that it was completely disrespectful to hold a concert like that in a church,but I don't think that they should have been jailed for it.It's scary to me that the church doesn't see the direction their country will be heading under Putin.It won't be favorable to them no doubt.

People protest in Russia.

bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18405306

The link is to a video of people protesting against Putin in Moscow so you see, this provocation was more bothersome to the church than it was to the government.

PlasticPole,this is what Putin was counting on,if they hadn't criticized Putin,their penalty would not have been as stiff.Have you read up on Putin any,It's not just western propaganda.Check out the amount of journalists that had been murdered during his first administration.The poisoning of Litvenenko.This has a lot to do with why his popularity started waning during his first term.

He is awful, p3undone, but these women did not have the right to do this to the church. The church is not Putin. They need to take it to the Kremlin and protest the actual government.

PlasticPole,I completely agree with you that they should never have done it in a church;a complete lack of respect,I'm not trying to justify what they did by no means,I'm saying that had they not criticized Putin their penalty would not have been as stiff.Putin is not the kind of man to let a slight go and if he hadn't gotten them one way he would have gotten them another.They fed right into his hands with that stupid move and the beautiful thing for him is that this wouldn't cause much outrage in Russia;being what they did.