Warsawski,This I cannot answer,maybe she fully cooperated and denounced the act and this may have had been considered contrition enough,who knows,It still doesn't justify how the others were dealt with.
Or expressing an honest opinion. The girls are in the right, the off-centre religious extremists who bayed for their blood in an orchestrated campaign are wrong.
Easy to see which philosophy is better for the world.
Jon357,I tend to believe it had more to do with it being a personal affront to Putin,but the religious affrontary was the perfect diversion to justify a stiff penalty.
Exactly - fanaticism and repression feeding off one another. If a protest against a particularly distasteful regime offends certain individuals because it took place in their church, they should perhaps look a bit closer at the way the founder of their religion behaved.
Things will get far worse there before they get better. It isn't that long ago that they were poisoning dissidents in London restaurants and as oil prices steadily increase decade by decade they will become almost untouchable. It's naive to think that Putin hasn't thought about his successor and even more naive to think that there will be a normal democratic process.
Jon357,As in the case of Medvedev,This also scores him points with the religious fundamentalists.Putin is shrewd and clever and every move he makes is well thought out.
I wonder if jon357 regards his own support for the 'torching' of churches (the ways Russia's bolsheviks and Spain's Stalinists once did) as fanaticism or repression?
The vast majority of people in the West have no Christian morals. (Just look at the so called Christian Protestant Zionists). The west has is currupt like ****. prn, gay, feminist, abortions, affirmative action and these things which destroy society. All heavily pushed for by left wing liberals and often times the other side too.
Who does the west think they are meddling with Russian affairs. These feminist ******* assaulted and insaulted a church. They knew they would get in trouble.
Putin is a man. He has balls something people like Obama, Romney, Harper, Cameron, Hollande, never had in the first place.
Legend,Putin is taking his revenge because he doesn't like people opposing him;those demonstrations signal that people in Russia are not happy with the stranglehold he has there.There are many Americans who have christian values and most bands over here wouldn't preform in a church.Either way and no matter what you say they were dealt with too heavily handed.
I find it rather ironic that while Poles are strongly behind these girls (yes, even the PiS voters) - the sad, out of touch North American Polonia chooses to rant against them.
Yet more proof that the Polonia haven't got a ******* clue.
Legend,Putin is taking his revenge because he doesn't like people opposing him;those demonstrations signal that people in Russia are not happy with the stranglehold he has there.There are many Americans who have christian values and most bands over here wouldn't preform in a church.Either way and no matter what you say they were dealt with too heavily handed.
Putin might very well be taking revenge a bit too aggressively. But at least hes not a ***** like the other leaders I mentioned above. These "girls" made a mockery of Christianity. Its not just about Putin here. Can you imagine if someone drew a Swastika in a place like Germany or Canada and started to make mockery of Judaism?!
In FACT, most Russians support Putin. His main opposition is a bunch of dirty communists and other "Russian" people like the traitor Kasparov. Communists who destroyed churches, murdered tens of millions of people including Poles.
I find it rather ironic that while Poles are strongly behind these girls (yes, even the PiS voters) - the sad, out of touch North American Polonia chooses to rant against them.
Yet more proof that the Polonia haven't got a ******* clue.
You cant change my dna, genes, or blood. Im no mongrel. Just because John Paul II was in Vatican didnt change the fact hes Polish. Im Polish as long and as far as me and documents are concerned.
Hows that Polish coming along? Struggling, ya I thought so.
Legend,It's offensive,but I don't think it should be a criminal offense no matter who's religion they offended.Freedom of belief and freedom of expression should not be infringed upon.If the leaders in this country had had no restraints like Putin;you'd be surprised what they would be capable of,thank God we haven't reached that point yet.Human nature is human nature.Church and state should be separate in my opinion.They were removed and that should have been it.
The destruction of Orthodox churches in Poland was reprehensible in moral terms but understandable in human terms. Poles wanted back what had been taken from them. Co nam obca przemoc wzięła, szablą odbierzemy - goes the national anthem. Not very Christian in terms of 'turning the other cheek' but a typcial human reaction or failing. Yes, at times encouraged by misguided albeit well-meaning men of the cloth. Let's remember B16's words in the spirit of true Christian humility: 'We are a Church of sinners.'
was reprehensible in moral terms but understandable in human terms.
You can't have it both ways - if you criticise the band for this in extreme terms, then you must admit that the actions of Poland in 1938 were worthy of the death penalty.
You cant change my dna, genes, or blood. Im no mongrel.
Except, you know...Poles, just like most people, are mongrels too.
Then again, you're such a proud Pole that you choose to be unemployed in Canada.
Trying to understand human behaviour is not making excuses. One could easily criticise many people today living spiritually empty materialistic lives beyond their means on credit like there was no tomorrow, going into debt, engaging in susbtance abuse, abandoning children, spouses or elderly parents... Should they be summarily lambasted for their abysmal stupidity? Or maybe one should try to understand that they are but the victims of cynical, greed-fuelled round-the-clock popcommercialist brainwashing telling them 'you only live once so shop till you drop, you were born to buy, anything goes, you owe it to yourself, bla-bla-bla...'
What a surprise to find another member of the Polonia defending Putin and Russia.
In case you haven't realised, Poles aren't fans of the Orthodox church, they aren't fans of Putin and they're no friends of Russia. Then again, being Polonia, you probably think that there's no difference between the people anyway.
I am opposed to the death penalty in keeping with JP2's teachings. He was oppsoed to all forms of killing: capital punishment, abortion and euthanasia. When asked to bless US-led troops going to Iraq he refused and only said something like: I feel sorry for the children who will suffer in the war.
I don't think they were jailed based solely on what they said. It is where and how they said it. If I cry fire in a crowded movie theater or walk up and down the street at 4 am screaming and wailing even knowing that people are trying to sleep so they can function at work the next day is this a freedom of speech issue or simple a public nuisance?
It is simple Hooliganism defined as of a persons, usually young, who belongs to an informal group and commit acts of vandalism or criminal damage, start fights, and who causes disturbances but not a thievery. What is more Ironic is that USA urged Russia in the past to adopt ''Hate Crimes'' legislation usualy after synagogues were vandalized in similar way. Simple Hooliganism charges were not enough for Washington DC and Brussels Pharisees Then. Another Misconception is to place it in context of Cold War and East West Conflict, Cultural Marxist Ideology is far more popular in the West then Post Communist East and one those Pussies had t-shirt with No Pasaran slogan during the transmission, Which I bet resonated well with Western Faux Proleterians.
I think it is because of what they said.What did they actually to to the building itself other than hold a concert.Did they incite violence in the church,it may have been a disturbance in the church,but it's not the same as yelling fire in a movie theater.they should have been removed from the church as soon as they started and that should have been it.They criticized the wrong person.
P3undone, you are the moderator, it was you who deleted the post with pictures describing what exactly took place?
It has already been said, but if any of you guys aren't doing anything for the next couple years, I propose the following experiment.
Assemble a group of four males. Put on ski masks and burst into the biggest mosque you can find, during a time when it is likely to be in use.
Make your way to the central area of worship and deliver an obscenity laden rant which attacks Islam and Muhammad. Thrown in an Islam related mention of Obama to ensure it is "political".
Legend,Putin is taking his revenge because he doesn't like people opposing him;those demonstrations signal that people in Russia are not happy with the stranglehold he has there.
The demonstrations are flash points, the vast majority of Russians agree with the time handed out to ***** Riot.
.There are many Americans who have christian values and most bands over here wouldn't preform in a church.Either way and no matter what you say they were dealt with too heavily handed.
If the bands performed in a Church over here they would request permission first, NOT attack a place of faith. If a punk group did the same in Westminster abbey during a service, I am sure you would have Boris and David pushing for jail time, just as they did during the London Riots. Six months for stealing water - is that acceptable?
Nicolas Robinson, 23, of Borough, south-east London, carried out the "opportunistic" theft at a Lidl supermarket in Brixton as he walked home from his girlfriend's house.
Robinson threw away the water and ran when he was confronted by police but was arrested and quickly admitted what he had done. His solicitor told Camberwell Magistrates' Court had "got caught up in the moment" and was "incredibly ashamed".
But District Judge Alan Baldwin said the background of "serious public disorder" was an aggravating feature.
Members of Robinson's family in the public gallery gasped with disbelief as the judge told him he would be going to prison for six months.
What would probably happen if you did your mosque protest, assuming you got out of the building, is nothing at all; it would likely not even be picked up by local news much less extend out to cover the damn planet. It takes a fairly orchestrated media program to cause a circus story. Like the Trayvon Martin thing went up the black grievance press nervous system from Ben Crump getting involved. Remember the story of a couple of white guys murdering a bunch of black people completely at random like a week after the Martin story first broke that disappeared a day later, even with all the juice it got piggybacking off the Martin case? That's what happens when no one with stroke is trying to bake bread with the story.
Also, this is why I roll my eyes when people trot out the idea that the big press is only in it for that filthy lucre, that every decision they make it to maximize profit. Horsesh!t, it sells itself as an entity to the ruling class as a Narrative Manufacturing Plant, and it mostly does it for pats on the heads and scratches behind the ears, not for money.
