It maybe 30%, however thats not numbers but percentage... for example if only 10 poles come to US and 3 overstay you have your 30%... So even though 3 poles overstay we are not allowed visa free travel.... The numbers of overstaying should be more important then the percentage...
As to your second comment..... Not always... many people don't receive a visa even though they should.... in the process they lose the money spent on applying which is very costly for a Pole working in Poland...
also don't you agree that western EU poses more of a danger to US then Poland when looking at possible terrorists entering the states...
Illegal immigration is #1 problem in the U.S. at this moment. People care more about putting stop to illegal immigration then the economy or the Iraq war. It is #1 issue this presidential election. The midia named it the "Invasion on the USA".
That's why I don't see any politician at this moment doing anything that could be read as "helping illegals". That would be a political suicide. Unfortunately for Poles, since it is not their fault.
The Invasion of America - Legal vs illegal Immigration youtube.com/watch?v=ykF2YT559no
It's Mexicans that are the problem, not Poles.... Normally I would agree with you that Poles are just caught in the crossfire if the US did not just recently approve the Czech Republic for the visa free waiver even though they don't fall below that 3% rate.... So how is it political sucide if they just did it for the Czechs....
btw Immigration is not the number one issue...... Iraq is the biggest issue, then economy and then immigration....
immigration is just the most controversial in terms of how to solve it the problem.....
I believe that the number is currently at 30%, and it has to be lower then 3% for a country to qualify for a Visa Waiver Program
Actually, the number that overstay is at about 10 %. The 30% is the percentage of visas that were denied or withdrawn by the person. Every year, around 100,000 poles apply for visas and only 70,000 are approved. (Big difference between 7,000 as opposed to 3 who overstay, Matthias)
if the US did not just recently approve the Czech Republic for the visa free waiver even though they don't fall below that 3% rate....
Actually, they do fall below the 3%......when they come over, they actually go back to CR when their visas expire, thus the reason they have a low refusal rate.
No they didn't, the governemnt came up with some new amemdment to get around this requirement..... unfortunately I don't know the name of it... however had something to do with countries that have supported US and maintain some number of soldiers in Iraq or Afghanistan have the threshold of 3% highered... so as you can see the czechs did not meet the requirement of 3%....
You know why so many Poles applying for visa don't get it, right? It's because they don't have the means to support themselves when they get here. They don't have a sufficient enough bank account, credit history etc. Let's be honest, most of them are planing to overstay and work here illegally. And many do.
I wouldn't care about it, but guess what - the illegal job market here is overtaken by Mexicans 100%. There is no "under the table" work left here, unless you are a Mexican. And they work hard for a small amount of money.
I am a citizen, so I don't mind that, all it means to me is that if I need to trim some fruit trees in my backyard or put in a new shower, or a new roof - I will pay 1/2 for the workmanship, made by Mexicans. But if you're here illegally from Poland looking for a job as a construction worker, a landscaper, a Nanny, guess what - you're screwed, you can't find a job and what's even worst now you have no means to go back. And you know, without visas this would happen to hundreds of thousands if not millions of Polish migrant workers here.
countries that have supported US and maintain some number of soldiers in Iraq or Afghanistan have the threshold of 3% highered...
Oh well, should've put more soldiers in Afganistan then I guess.
I was certain that when the European markets opened for us, the immigration to US would drop drastically. Add the cost of travel, the invasion of Mexicans, and how weak dollar gets every day, I'm surprised any Pole would still see their chance on the other side of the pond.. this is why this visa refusal percentage is just fishy to me.. maybe they got so used to refusing every third person at the Embassy, that they now do it only out of habit..
I must protest against the title of this thread.. should be more darn politically correct.. We're good enough to kick anyone's ass, if they ask for it.. :P
You may be right with the open job markets, I hope. We'll see what it's going to look like in Canada - they just now withdrew their visa requirement.
I must protest against the title of this thread.. should be more darn politically correct.. We're good enough to kick anyone's ass, if they ask for it.. :P
Ha-ha that's Hairball who started this thread, one of our leading "U.S. haters" on these forums. I believe his original title was "Aren't Poles Good Enough for America?" or something like that. lol
Ranj Here is an article stating that the czech rate has to be under 10% not 3%, so you can concede.... I can't find the exact ammendment because I forgot the name of it. However the article above tells you its not the customary 3%.....
As for Dice, Poles do not want to come to US to work anymore, they want to come to visit there family..... Why should poles pay the high visa fee not knowing they will be accepted...
btw Dice we have more soldiers then the czechs... do a little research..we had the 3rd largest contigent in Iraq at one point... we have more soldiers then countries in western EU...
still didn't answer the question, doesn't the west EU pose more of a threat from terrorism then Poland...
Matthias, I don't disagree with you that Poles should have the privilege of the VWP. Let's not kid ourselves though, most of the people who get their request for a visa rejected were planning on illegal work - otherwise why would they want to go "on vacation" to a country they can't afford?
On the other hand if you have a family here (legally) you will get a visa. But you're right, you shouldn't have to pay for it or go through all the hoops.
still didn't answer the question, doesn't the west EU pose more of a threat from terrorism then Poland...
I agree with that 100%, look at Richard Reid (the Shoe Bomber), and I believe that some of the 9-11 highjackers came here on a German Passport.
Do you know what the real problem is? I have a visa, and even though I do, still each time I approach an immigration officer at any airport in the States, I get nervous, because after spending not only 100 bucks for visa application procedure, but also another 700-800 bucks for the flight, taking days off at work, not to mention the biggest challenge - making it somehow with only two suitcases, I still have NO idea, if he/she is going to let me enjoy my stay, or tell me: "I'm sorry, Miss, I don't think your intentions are honest, we will put you on the next flight back to Warsaw"..
I understand the visa procedures (though I may not always agree with them), but to let a person fly a few thousand miles, only to turn them down there.... is this some kind of a dirty deal between the gov and the carriers?
It seems we agree that Poles should be in the VWP.... if not at the very least.... we both agree that they shouldn't have to pay the high fee for the visa...
As far as, that those rejected are planning on illegal work... I just don't believe it because they could go to Britain, make more money, work legally, and be closer to home...
To me it seems they want to visit those that are here already however those that are illegal can't provide the proper paperwork for there family in Poland (such as bank accounts and what have you)... leading to such a high refusal rate.... so because of those that came here illegaly 10 years ago or however long ago it is preventing this rate from going down.. I must admit this is just speculation on my part.... however many Poles I know are moving back to Poland and those I talk to in poland rather work in EU and just want to come here to visit there family....
that the czech rate has to be under 10% not 3%, so you can concede
Looks to me they raised the rate to 10% which still places Poland 20% above the acceptable rate.
As I stated before, I have no doubt that Poland will become a member of VWP in the near future.....they just have to implement all the stipulations (ie: Electronic Travel Authorization and lower their refusal rate).
Blanket policy At this point, lhe single most important factor required by U.S. legislation for entry into the Visa Waiver Program is the establishment of the ETA. It is an online tool through which candidates apply for permissionto enter the United States, and it is only available to travelers with a biometric passport.
The system, which has been used for years in Australia and which the U.S. government would like to improve, should be up and running by August or September. After a period of testing it will be made available to the general public.
According to Barth, the establishment of the ETA is a step toward uniting U.S. policy with that of all EU countries, as it would go into effect for both existing and new members of the Visa Waiver Program. The ETA should allow more countries that meet criteria such as low visa refusal rates to join the Visa Waiver Program more quickly, while providing better security for the United States. Greece and Estonia should also be able to join the Visa Waver Program this year (their refusal rates are low enough), provided they also implement the ETA.
"All countries will have to fulfill the same criteria,"
I think too many people are making this a personal thing against Poland and it isn't......they are not being singled out to not receive it.
The rate is raised only for those that fit into the new ammendment.. which was especially established for those that are Americas closest allies... Unfortunately I don't know the name of the ammendment... Either way your right it still places Poland at the 20% way above the 10%... But its based on the refusal rate.. Who knows the exact reason why Poles are being refused. It may having nothing to do with that they would overstay... Could be they couldnt provide bank account info.... what the h*ll is that.... many Poles who unfortunately are illegal that came here 10 years ago don't have banks accounts... the Poles that want to come here now just want to visit there family.
I agree that Poland is not being singled out... I just expect a break after the support shown on the war on terror..
The EU says it could take legal action in response to a visa pact signed by the US and Czech Republic.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7267709.stm
interesting info
The fact is that Europe officially doesn't have one energetic or defense policy (so decisions can be made by single countries maybe it will change in future but in present time it is just the plan) ... it has one visa policy.
Ifs funny how western Europe has the higher risk of terrorists coming into US and yet it is Eastern Europe that must provide tougher security procedures....
Its clear that western EU has much larger muslim population and much higer risk of homegrown terrorists then eastern EU.... what b*llshit..... Im a huge supporter of US but Im slowely becoming fed up.....
In this case, it is not about the terrorists. Visa restrictions existed before 9-11. It's about how many people come here from a particular country on a tourist visa and then overstay and work illegally. No country likes that, especially a country whose #1 issue at this time is the illegal immigration. If we could one day actually build the Southern Border fence (politically a very dangerous subject) then maybe the Government could get a handle on the illegal immigration crisis...
Again, if you have a family or friends willing to support you here or have enough assets to support yourself you will get a visa anyway.
I think too many people are making this a personal thing against Poland and it isn't......they are not being singled out to not receive it.
Matthias, if you have a family here or friends who are willing to support you or enough assets to support yourself YOU WILL GET A VISA.
A $100 fee for a visa is nothing in comparison to the whole trip. You will spend a $100+ a day easily + a $1000 or two for the airplane tickets. Why would anybody go vacationing to a country that they can't afford? I don't take vacations in France; I vacation in Jamaica or Mexico! Catch the drift?
I think you take it personaly, and it is not the smart way to do it.
Again you say its not about terrorists. Then why as long as czechs increase their security such as biometric passports they will be accepted...
read post 107, even ranj admits security is number one reason..
Again though, that security applies to everyone......there are former VWP countries that have been taken off the list because they wouldn't comply with stipulations.....it even says in the article that you supplied the countries within the UK may counter it because it requires tighter security on their part.
It's not just one thing that qualifies a country for the waiver.....there are several stipulations that have to be met and CR will meet those requirements, whilst Poland will not at this time.
I get both your drifts..... good points both of you...
First, Most poles just want to visit there family., not come to vacation... Second the fee sucks because if your declined you lose the money.. Im sure Poles don't mind paying the money if they know its not going to go to waste..
Anyways, I guess EU should also introduce such stringent measures on US.... You know we just all want to be safe....
First, Most poles just want to visit there family., not come to vacation...
So wouldn't your family send you a copy of their taxes to provide evidence how much they make and a letter stating that they will support you when you're here? C'mon, everybody would do that, especially if you're coming here to visit them.
Once again: if you have a family here or friends who are willing to support you or enough assets to support yourself YOU WILL GET A VISA.
As far as losing the $100 if you don't get the visa, I agree that sucks, but hey; why would you go somewhere where you can't afford to stay and you have no one to provide you with support?
Ranj, I agree... if US agrees to such measures then my complaint will disappear.
to answer your question dice.... because many are here illegaly from five years ago or ten years ago and don't have the necessary paperwork... but that doesn't mean the poles coming in NOW are here to work illegaly...
So what you're saying is that you want to come here to visit someone who is here illegally, but you're getting pissed when they refuse you a visa because so many Poles are here illegally. WHAT?
because many are here illegaly from five years ago or ten years ago and don't have the necessary paperwork... but that doesn't mean the poles coming in NOW are here to work illegaly...
No offense my friend, but this sounds more like a joke than a serious statement :) Can't you see the irony in that?
First Im an American citizen, so im not pi*sed about being rejected for a visa... My point is that the Poles of todays who want to come to the US should not be punished for the crimes of of those Poles that committed them in the past...
You want to deport Poles that are here illegaly that's fine, while your at it the 8 million illegal Mexicans... but do not punish those Poles in Poland who did not break the law..
that's the very defination of collective punishment....
now if you provided me with credible proof that Poles in poland want to come here to work illegaly, then Ill sing a different tune.. However to me its clear that this is not the case...
here's an interesting article if you have the time Dice.. its about a Canadian that the immigration knew was here illegaly and yet they let her daughter visit... mind you this was after 911.
Again, Matt: for the n'th time: If you have a family here (legally) or friends who are willing to support you or enough assets to support yourself YOU WILL GET A VISA.
I wish that anyone could come here, make some money and help their families; unfortunately, this is not possible at the moment. USA has too many illegal immigrants from South America at the present time. It simply wouldn't be good for the U.S. or for Poland.
