Pole-basher Gross up to old tricks

Moon landings, six manned landings in fact.


None of the landings are contested at all, except by the usual noisy fools.

He's been living in America since 50 years and hold a US citizenship, so much for "yeah but he's Polish so he has right to **** on his "own" country/nation". Dude, your crowd has been all over people that hasn't been living in Poland since just few years, that they don't pay taxes here so they shouldn't be allowed to vote and all of that but now it turns out that a guy who's been living in America is somehow excluded from that rule :))))

Besides, whether he's Polish or not is off-topic really. You just now that crazy grandpa said utter nonsense so just try push it off the real topic.

By the same logic, any Pole who emigrated wouldn't be Polish...


The language of this forum is English.

The reality is that he hold both American and Polish citizenship, after making significant efforts to have his Polish citizenship reconfirmed after it was illegally stripped from him by the Communist authorities both you and Polo claim to never support. If he didn't think of himself as Polish, he never would have made the effort to have Polish citizenship reconfirmed.


Whoever said that Gross doesn't pay taxes in Poland? Both you and Polo claim he loves money so much but he'd a fool to not pay some taxes in Poland, do make your mind up.

"The reality is that he hold both American and Polish citizenship"

Therefore according to your logic, he must be both American and Polish.

But let's get back to the actual topic, so this "Professor of War and Society and Professor of History at Princeton University" says that Poles killed 250 thousand Jews...

(by the way, strange that he sort them into Poles and Jews, isn't it :)))) ?

No, it means that in Poland he is Polish and in the USA he is American (in all other places he can choose which to be). Poland is the most important place in the world to me and I care far more about things here than anywhere else, so to me he is Polish. But I understand that people who think that Poland is an unimportant place with is not worthy of having them as a citizens would think otherwise; fortunately Gross has made it very clear that he considers himself to be and wants to be Polish.


Actually, he doesn't, as is shown by the statement he makes in the link I provided pages ago. But I do understand that it's easier for you to just lie about what he says than to deal with what he actually says.


Not at all strange to those of us who bothered to pay attention during history lessons and so learned that Jews from all over Europe were transported to Poland by the Nazis to the ghettos in Poland.

"Poland is the most important place in the world to me and I care far more about things here than anywhere else, so to me he is Polish. "

Oh man, these expats :))))))

"Actually, he doesn't"

Of course he does. What else does he claim according to you ? That Poland is the most important place in the world to him :))))))?

"Not at all strange to those of us who bothered to pay attention during history lessons and so learned that Jews from all over Europe were transported to Poland by the Nazis to the ghettos in Poland."

He was talking about so called Polish Jews. And he called them just Jews, vs Polish Goys who he called Poles. That's it, when it suits him (or you) Polish Jews (Jews) are some other group of people than Polish Goys (Poles) and in other cases you've got "come on but he's Polish" :)))))))

You are very simply not telling the truth. If you were telling the truth, you would quote his words. But you will not do that, because you know that you are not telling the truth.


I have no idea. But there is only one nation that he has taken pains to confirm his citizenship of, no other nation.


Again, you are very simply not telling the truth. He states that he is talking about the population of the Jewish ghettos in Poland, not Polish Jews. Anybody who bothered to stay awake in primary school history lessons knows that the Jews in the ghettos in Poland were not only Jews from Poland.


Are you ever going to bother learning what that word means?

"If you were telling the truth, you would quote his words. "

Here we go.

"Consider the Poles, who, deservedly proud of their society's anti-Nazi resistance, actually killed more Jews than Germans during the war."

" According to estimates by Polish historians, about 10% of the Jewish ghetto population in Poland - some 200,000-250,000 people - tried to save themselves by running away from the ghettoes and hiding on the so-called Aryan side. Out of this population, about 40,000 Jews survived the war. The bulk of the Jewish population killed during this period perished either directly, killed by the Poles (or Ukrainians) among whom they were hiding, or by being betrayed and delivered to German police outposts by the local population."

You can play with the words for the next 100 posts but that won't change the fact that you guys totally fecked up this one :))))))))) I guess you it's been a matter of over confidence due to the past "successes".

So, by your maths says that between 200,000 and 250,000 minus 40,000 is 250,000?! Superb, even by your standards!

So it's only 160-210 thousand of Jews (!) murdered by Poles (!) ?

Again, six or six-hundred, it naturally should never have happened in the first place! Noone's questioning that it happened, rather, are the stats massaged or accurate:-)

You use the word "truth" a lot but apparently think it means only your biased version of things.
You probably have never even bothered to acquaint yourself with the other side of the story, so read up and know rather than guess and speculate! But first be sure to ask your your Jewish masters for permission. It may be too off-topic! (LOL!)

geocities.ws/jedwabne/english/100_klamstw_grossa_1.htm

"Noone's questioning that it happened"

Out of curiosity, do you guys still deny that a gang also known as "Jewish partisans" murdered 3 thousand Poles in Koniuchy ?

When the best source you can offer is a commie collaborator who flipped to the ultra-nationalist side as soon as the commies could no longer give him what he wanted, you know you're in trouble! Although I must say that JR Nowak does remind me of a certain somebody I'd better not name.

Are you really holding up JR Nowak as a counter-balance to Gross? Is that why you failed to mention who he is or his collaborationist past?


I don't know who 'you guys' are but I know that some people claim the killers were Jewish partisans, just as some people claim the holocaust was a hoax. And I also know that even the IPN doesn't claim that the death toll was even 2% of the figure you throw about with your characteristic disregard for maths and truth.

300 or 3000, it naturally should never have happened in the first place.

Harold, come on, you feck it up big time :))))

You are a lazy git delph given that you had years to check up his books and standards of his books and you go by is a title?


I have expected noting lees form you jon. The proof is in the pudding but you don't go by facts you go by what is convenient to you.


You are talking utter rubbish which only betray your even deeper ignorance of the subject. Shame on you jon!


Why don't you preform proskynesis,and while you are at it you can lick his feet.


How about polonius3 Harry? Is he more Polish or less?


It really doesn't matter whatever he is from Poland , Israel or India, what matters is his methodology and research which is nonexistent, hence his book is a work of fiction. The fact he is teaching sometime course on the University means nothing, they can employ anybody they want, also it is a privately founded chair.


There is nothing to question. What is being questioned or rather some fools are constantly yapping about how his works are historical books based on facts and evidence while in fact those books are fiction story based loosely on some past events.

Well, something sure must've happened in that barn all those years back for there to be such a fuss made, that's for certain! Many a "true" story has been ruined by OVERverification!

"FIction", Ironside??! Same folks are saying the identical things about the Holocaust itself.

Luzko do you understand idea of scientific research and evidence?


Do you understand what fiction mean or do you need an explanation. As to what you choose to call Holocaust sure it happened but some details are rather blurry, and nobody dares to correct it since it stopped to be historical and started to be cultural and political issue.

Neither actually, not even close.


Of course it never should have happened (although the fact that a Schutzmannschaft battalion went rushing to the rescue says something about why it may have happened). However, the fact that it should never have happened most certainly does not mean that it can be lied about, or denied; just as the fact that many of the events that Gross writes about (such as the Jedwabne massacre and the post-war pogroms and the grave robbing) should never have happened means that those events can be lied about or denied.

How do you account for the fact that the first three bodies exhumed in Jedwabne had gunshot wounds? Everyone thought only the Germans were armed.

Since when has that been a 'fact'?


Did they? I wonder who would be stupid enough to believe that no members of the AK in Poland had guns. Probably the same sort of people who would stupid enough to believe that no members of the AK in Poland used their guns to murders Jews (one should note that some of such members of the AK were later executed by the AK for murdering Jews). One would imagine that that sort people might be the same sort of people who think a commie collaborator who flipped to the ultra-nationalist side as soon as the commies could no longer give him what he wanted makes an ideal counterbalance to a Princeton professor of history.

You discovered the first time travel crime. As Jedwabne happened in June 1941 and Home Army had created in 14th of February 1942.

Let me guess, it was created as the first army in the world which had no guns and purchased all of its weapons on the open market after that date, with Poczta Polska handling deliveries nationwide, right?

Although that selection of 'facts' would be a lot more believable than some of the fantasies which are trotted out by those who seek to stop Gross from spreading knowledge about some things which actually did happen.

You don't need to guess, it is your story, you should know it. I'm only curios whether you are talking fiction or S-F.

Harry, don't get so defensive when cases of Jews murdering Poles are mentioned. It's definitely one of the dark chapters of history and we want them all to be exposed, don't we :)))) ?


I heard a Polish genius managed to fit 1600 people in a barn !

The only thing Gross ever spread were lies nad distortions. Since you always land smack dab on the non-Polish side of any Polish-Jewish and are the first to passionately lunge into action at the slightest whiff of anything Jewish, why not, fess up: R U 1 2! There's nothing to be ashamed of!

@
Ironside, do YOU understand the meaning of historical revisionism?? Of course the Poles don't want Gross' research to come to light, as it's clearly a source of wounding shame to all but the most intransigent of anti-Semites. Decent thinking people, TRUE Christians, not Sunday churchgoers, be they Poles, Germans, Hungarians, whatever, believe that such things that happened were wrong.

Sadly too, there are others among our tribe who seek to profit from both the ignorance and suffering of others. This is the real shame here!

Israel's another not too dissimilar example. There have been numerous cases in which Palestinian Arabs have been killed unapologetically by Israeli forces. They've been hushed up however, precisely because they are a source of embarrassment, hence branded as lies by most Israeli Jews.

I might add at this point that more than half of all Holocaust survivors never saw as much as a penny in compensation aka restitution! Therefore, the myth of the "sneaky Jews" en masse enriching themselves from their suffering's a bunch of hogwash not to mention a particularly venal slur.

Where did you get that number from? I couldn't find anything on Google, except for people scamming the Jewish Claims Conference:

content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2031278,00.html

Lyzko do you understand what I'm typing to you? It seems that all goes over your head. What research there is not research nor any evidence, all there is Gross's narrative, fiction. Like you Jews say - grandma story instead baloney - am I right?

So Gross book is a kind of grandma story put into writing. You got it now?


That is your theory. Well, you might be right to some extend because many people out there believe in a concept of the truth. Something which is founded on facts, verifiable facts, to do that one has special procedures and tools, scientific tools at his disposal and is able to provided result of proper application of said tools.

What I'm telling you again and again that Gross failed to do so.

The problem may lay in a fact that Jews in American (at least )have a certain mythology build into art that all the people where out there to get them, and Poles were among them as well, this myth circulated for decades and now wherever Poles try to set the record straight are being seen as in being in denial.


Indeed, and it is even more important for people who are open to fact the truth whatever it looks like without excuses and prejudice. To do that facts, evidence and research need to be implied promptly. Forensic evidence in Jedwabne should be examined.


Well, neither Poles who face prosecution, lost of propriety, ethnics cleansing, mass expulsion and genocide, didn't see a penny of compensation, after the war those who were heroes of resistance were often tortured shot in the back of their head and put in the ditches by the soviet regime. to be forgotten.

Why should those people or their progeny compel to pay anything to anybody?
Perception that Poles in mass were enriching themselves by installing themselves on propriety of Jewish victims is false, that property belonged to the III Reich and nobody would be able to touch it without dire repercussions.

There is case of one Soviet official who perpetrated in such crimes guilty of murdering about 1000 (more or less) people who after 1989 went to Israel and Israel refused to extradite him. I can under presumption and law they operate under but that particular action is seen by some people as an evidence of evil Jews condoning mass murder of people as loon as their are not Jews.

In the light of above I think reasonable people who really want to get to the bottom of things should be working together.


There is not such a myth Lyzko. People who are interested in the issue know very well that all those money extorted in the name of victims are being appropriated on its way by shady characters, those gangster who run shady deal of blackmail, lies and lobbing and they have been exposed for that.

The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering)Norman Gary Finkelstein

If you would like to read scientific book about Jedwabne here - Chodakowski M. The Massacre in Jedwabne, July 10, 1941: Before, During, After, Columbia University Press and East European Monographs,

About property restitution here - Restytucja: The Problems of Property Restitution in Poland (1939-2001) I think available on line.