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Poland to (temporarily) restore internal Schengen borders


Harry  
4 Nov 2013 /  #1
Whoever said that the government of Poland is prone to over-react?

Announcement regarding the restrainment of border control at Poland's Schengen Area borders
Due to the need of ensuring public safety and order during the COP19 Convention on Climate Change on November 8 - 23 2013, the Minister of Internal Affairs has ordered a reinstatement of border control at Poland's Schengen Area borders.

ANNOUNCEMENT

Due to the need of ensuring public safety and order during the COP19 Convention on Climate Change on November 8 - 23 2013 the Minister of Internal Affairs has ordered a reinstatement of border control at Poland's Schengen Area borders.

The reinstatement makes it possible to permanently or temporarily control the persons crossing border, as well as preventing the entrance into Poland of persons who could disrupt public order or otherwise pose a security threat. It will not entail any restrictions on travel.

islamabad.msz.gov.pl/en/news/control_on_interior_schengen_borders_restored
Monitor  13 | 1810  
4 Nov 2013 /  #2
I think that they did the same during football championship.
InWroclaw  89 | 1910  
4 Nov 2013 /  #3
cop19.gov.pl

2013 is the year in which the Eastern European Group takes turn in hosting the Conference of Parties. COP 19/CMP 9 will be held in Warsaw, Poland from 11-22 November 2013

So, Poland must be Eastern Europe if Poland's own govt website says so in its own text. I thought PL was central Europe as so many Poles insist.


  • Eastern European in the Poland government website text
bluesfan  - | 77  
4 Nov 2013 /  #4
I thought PL was central Europe as so many Poles insist.

Poland is in Central Europe.
The UN, however, doesn't have a category for Central Europe. They categorise Europe into Northern, Southern, Eastern and Western regions only.

So, Poland must be Eastern Europe

Erm, no.
InWroclaw  89 | 1910  
4 Nov 2013 /  #5
There are lots of UN-related websites mentioning Central Europe, however. Here's just one of many:
unep.org/roe/WesternandCentralEurope/tabid/54057/Default.aspx
Google for the others.

Erm, no.

Perhaps you should contact the PL govt website above's webmaster then, and correct him or her !
jon357  73 | 22934  
4 Nov 2013 /  #6
So, Poland must be Eastern Europe if Poland's own govt website says so in its own text. I thought PL was central Europe as so many Poles insist.

A bit of both really. Central European in economy and religion, Eastern European in food, drink, culture, politics. In architecture, language and agriculture, a bit of both. There are threads on this.

Whoever said that the government of Poland is prone to over-react?

Very bad news here. It means they must be expecting something to happen. A few years ago they closed a couple of crossings during Hansa Day as pure sabre-rattling from the ducks' government. If they're doing this now, there must be a very specific reason.
sobieski  106 | 2111  
4 Nov 2013 /  #7
The UN, however, doesn't have a category for Central Europe.

Central Europe is a definition and it exists. Mitteleuropa exists and not only on ancient railway carriages. It corresponds in a big way with the Visegrad idea.

Central Europe connects sociologically, culturally, historically to Western Europe.
TheOther  6 | 3596  
4 Nov 2013 /  #8
We've had this discussion many times before, folks. The mindset in the west was and still is that Poland - like all other former Warsaw Pact countries - is a part of Eastern Europe. Both geographically and culturally. Even the citizens of the former GDR are considered "east" by most of their West German counterparts. I believe that the generations which can remember pre-1989 times have to pass away first before anything will change in the heads of the people.
jon357  73 | 22934  
4 Nov 2013 /  #9
Agreed.

The real issue is why they're buggering about with Schengen. At Okecie most of the gates are the Schengen side of the barrier - what are they going to do, put up a whole new set of passport booths or just use the non-Schengen bit???

If so, expect delays and crowds,
TheOther  6 | 3596  
4 Nov 2013 /  #10
Are full border controls even legal for a Schengen member? I vaguely remember the Danish attempt a few years back.
delphiandomine  86 | 17823  
5 Nov 2013 /  #11
I can speak fairly authoritatively on this subject, as the issue of Schengen and borders is a personal interest of mine.

What will happen in practice is that Schengen is suspended, but they will not control everyone. There will likely be a visible presence at key points (for instance, the escalator exit from the Schengen zone in Okęcie) - and that presence will likely be semi-permanent, but there's no way that everyone will be controlled. On the land borders, you'll almost certainly see areas set up for border control at the main crossings (Swiecko, Kudowa-Slone, etc) - but again, these won't be systematic and it's likely that they will pull people into areas specifically for the purpose rather than checking everyone.

This picture (although a bit small) shows it well -

It's highly unlikely that there will be even a visible control at the vast majority of border crossings. I'm going up to the border this weekend, so I'll check the situation on the ground and report back. These controls aren't uncommon - I've been stopped several times on the German-Polish border.

Are full border controls even legal for a Schengen member?

According to Schengen law, it's allowed to suspend Schengen for up to 30 days based on a risk to security - in practice, no-one (not even the Danes) have ever suspended Schengen completely to the point of outlawing border crossings anywhere except at approved points.
jon357  73 | 22934  
5 Nov 2013 /  #12
Where will they get the staff from to do the checks?
delphiandomine  86 | 17823  
5 Nov 2013 /  #13
What's not often mentioned is that when the checks were abandoned at the border, very few people were actually made redundant - what mostly happened was that they were redeployed in different areas, and they have plenty of "placówki" still operational. For instance - joint patrols are common with the Germans, and as far as I'm aware, plenty of staff are trained in both passport control and patrolling. If I remember rightly, at the same time as controls were abolished on the southern/western borders, they beefed up numbers on the eastern/northern borders.

You'll often see the Straz Graniczna lurking near the German border, and it's quite common to see them patrolling in places like Szczecin and Kostrzyn train stations. Mobile checks don't take much in the way of manpower - usually just one man to flag down cars and another to do the checks.

But - of course resources are limited, which is why Schengen won't be suspended totally. I forget the exact number, but before Schengen, there were something like 90 active border crossings with Slovakia/Czech Republic/Germany - and many more have been opened since then. A total closure is impossible - they will simply focus on the most likely places for troublemakers.

I suspect the only time we will see any significant presence on the border will be next weekend and on Tuesday.
Steveramsfan  2 | 305  
5 Nov 2013 /  #14
At the Swiecko border crossing there are always people randomly being stopped, I have been stopped a few times when driving in my German Reg car.

Not been stopped in my UK registered car though.

I am driving back through on the 19th Nov so hopefully there are no delays.
jon357  73 | 22934  
5 Nov 2013 /  #15
Kostrzyn train stations

I've seen guards walking alond the platform there.

Road checks don't worry me, but I either fly or go by train Warsaw/Berlin at least monthly and much prefer it without controls.

I suspect they'll be looking mostly for potential protestors.

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