Shops in Poland to be closed on Sunday?

In other words, there is no good reason.

Harry you haven't got a leg to stand on defending your sectarian comment.

With regard to the proposed change in Sunday trading I believe that a lot of people will benefit and like any change only time will tell who is correct. Having guaranteed time off allows one to plan non work related activities which leads to a better quality of life. Of course common sense has to be applied, taking an extreme literal interpretation of the proposed changes ignores common sense.


That doesn't follow from what I said, the conclusion is wrong, you asked a loaded question I side stepped the question, it's very common in debate to do that.

Can you tell us why only supermarket workers should benefit from getting a better quality of life? Common sense, as you interpret it, is that anyone working in a non-critical profession should have the day off. Yet they don't, and no-one cares about them.

You still haven't provided a reason why people should have to lose wages, despite it being common knowledge in Poland that people actually like working on Sundays.

Well, other than what it says in the bible. BTW, if you want to know what sectarianism looks like, just stroll to the nearest mirror: in it you will see a distinctly unpleasant racist sectarian.


You are welcome to your beliefs. However, the fact is that a lot of people will lose their jobs (as the amount of time when labour required will go down by 14%), a lot of people will lose money (as they will not be able to work on Sundays and will not receive the extra pay paid on Sundays) and a lot of people will be inconvenienced. Those are the simple facts.


And having to do whatever shopping one needs to do on one particular day restricts what other things one can plan to do, as one has to plan one's life around the religious diktats of zealots.


So you refused to answer a question because we all know what the answer is and the answer is very inconvenient to those who want to force their views onto others.

As explained Delph it's easy to sidestep such loaded questions, but here is one. Because all cannot benefit from such changes why should none?

Yes common sense, as I understand it means there is flexibility, not an all or nothing approach.

Edit


Lordy Harry what an outburst, I'm sure you will offer any pain you feel up


Indeed I am and all I'm doing posting my opinion on the topic not making sectarian remarks.


Its not all about religion Harry as much as you would like to insult Catholics


Again Harry its not all about Religion you don't seem to understand how debate works.

I lived in India a long time ago, so no, I didn't have to turn a blind eye to anything. Your info comes from 2012, and I know that radical Hinduism has become more popular recently. Also, I did not say there was no ugliness in that culture, I said the ugliness there was basically no different to ugliness in our own culture - as if being Christian automatically meant you would never kill or persecute anybody of another faith. If radical Catholicism seriously catches on in Poland (and it still hasn't, thankfully), you might witness very unpleasant incidents re. religious minorities or atheists. That's religious ideology for you. That's why I don't buy it.

Can someone confirm - is extra paid for working Sunday?

The one that predominates in Poland perhaps?

And claiming 'absolute truth' is not a basis for legislation. Hard proof is.

Not more important, but more exploited. At least that's my guess. You'de have to ask those MPs what were their reasons, I'm not their spokesperson (and neither is Polonius3) :)

That's what the leader of Katowice trade union of Społem shops has to say on the issue:


natemat.pl/63073,zakaz-handlu-w-niedziele-jedynym-ratunkiem-dla-kasjerek-traktowane-sa-jak-podludzie-odpoczynek-w-niedziele-to-nie-zyczenie-a-kul

And could you, delph, tell me why shops in Belgium are closed on Sunday and none of you has any problem with that and Harry isn't insulting Belgians because of that?

despite it being common knowledge in Poland that people actually like working on Sundays.

Delph, what on Earth are you talking about??? xDDD
Common knowledge?
People like working on Sundays? xD
Who told you that?? ;D
I know noone, absolutely NOONE, who would like working on Sundays! And not even because of religious reasons. People simply don't like to work on weeknds! lol

Can someone confirm - is extra paid for working Sunday?

I have no idea, I've never worked on Sunday.

As for Polish labour law, I've just watched an interview with a Polish trade unionist on Polsat Biznes channel. He said 52% of employers in Poland brake the law (big foreign companies included).

Btw, did you know that Polish word for Saturday - "sobota" - comes from Jewish "Sabbath"? I don't think I realised that! lol It's the same with Spanish [i]sábado, Italian sabato, Czech sobota, Russian суббота (subbota), Croatian subota.

I wonder when the usage of this word came into being in Poland (and Europe)?
Harry, do you know anything about this?

For the umpteenth time these proposals are about more than religion as much as you would like it to be otherwise.

Poland is more than a bunch of "failed Catholics".

I don't live in Belgium and have very little interest in what religious zealots there force other people to do.


I like working on Sundays. I know quite a few other people who do too, my girlfriend for example.


Gosh, what are the chances of him saying that? As for what he claims to know, he has a legal obligation to file with the public prosecutor a notification if he has reasonable suspicion that any crime has been committed. If he doesn't do that, he himself commits a crime.


I've never heard a thing about that.

So people in Germany don't work on Sunday because of "religious zealots" too?


OK, then I don't know a single Pole who would like working on Sunday :) Even if there are such people there are a very little minority and probably don't have children.


What are the chances of him saying that? What he claims to know? :)
Oh, Harry, Harry... It's easy to assume things, judge people without checking first, isn't it?
It isn't that trade unionist who is "claiming" anything. This data comes from a report made by a state institution - Państwowa Inspekcja Pracy lol

Here you go:

Hiring black, increase the number of contracts and work orders rather than time , more and more complaints about employers not respecting time and arrears with the payment of wages - a picture of labor law violations emerging from the PIP control in 2010-2012 .

The conclusions of the control of the State Labour Inspectorate in the period presented on Tuesday at a meeting of the Parliament acting at the Labour Protection Council in Poland.

The OP and so many of those who are actively involved in this 'campaign' make their motivations clear. And fortunately Poland is far more than Catholicism. It is officially secular since 1921.

Not "religious zealots" are the reason for this but trade unions, social democrats and even politicians like Bismarck, who reintroduced this day as a "day of rest", after Early Capitalism in the early 19th century forced people to work every day.

And almost everyone in Central Europe likes the idea that at least one day of the week is not devoted to brainless consumerism and the exploitation of labour.

Come to my office: I'll introduce you to lots of them. Most (almost all in fact) have children. They seem to like the 200% wages on Sunday.


PIP saying 'hardly any companies break labour law' would be like turkeys saying 'Christmas? Love it'.
I'm surprised that the figure is as low as what PIP say. I remember where I used to work a bloke who was fired for being crap went crying to the PIP, they came in for a spot check and found that, horror of horrors, some people had desk lights with broken bulbs. The company was issued with a formal warning for this breach of the applicable regulations and told that next time it'll be a fine.

How many exactly?


And nannies? lol Or are they all men? lol


Ah, yes... Then they like the wages, not working on Sunday. I'm sure they would like 200% wages if they would get them for working on Friday too ;)

That's nice, Harry, that you worked in such a nice workplace with such trivial problems. I'm pretty sure it wasn't a job that an ordinary Pole does, was it? Where did you work, Mr. Expat? ;)

And what, you judge the whole institution by that one example? o_O
I know ordinary Poles, Harry, who work in factories and supermarkets, etc. and who put up with all kinds of exploitation and are afraid to even complain to trade unions in fear of losing their jobs. I see those MPs who signed that proposal aren't the only ones who don't know what's the reality on the ground...

The reform of the trading law is supported by the union movement and people from most if not all political parties but you and others choose to focus on the religious aspect.


Exactly but right leaning people want to remove any opportunity for quality reliable predictable leisure time.


Yes, I did say that Poland was more than a bunch of "failed Catholics".

Actually they're almost all women.


Actually I was the only foreigner working there.


Fun fact: everybody likes the wages, not the working. If it weren't for the wages, people wouldn't do the working: that's why it is called 'work'.

Wow, then that's... unusual o_O Why do they choose to work on Sunday rather then spend time with their children? Do they need that extra money that much? Do they have nannies?

And how many of those women? You didn't answer that.


I didn't write "Poles in general". I wrote "ordinary Poles". So, where did you work?


Well, let's not exaggerate - some people like their work, even if they're exceptions to the rule :)
And I stand by what I wrote - I don't know any Pole who would like working on Sunday. Either they aren't paid extra money (or enough) for working on Sunday or they prefer to rest and spend time with their family on weekend.

Because the money is good. I assume they all have nannies, given that the work all week. But perhaps on Sundays their husbands do the child care.


The Poles there weren't any more special than most Poles are. It was a publishing company.


I like my work: but I don't like it enough to work for free.

So, if I understand correctly, nothing terrible would happen if they didn't work on Sunday? They wouldn't starve, yes?


They work all week? Are they workaholics? lol


lol Well, Harry, a publishing company isn't exactly the same thing as a factory or a supermarket.

And just in case you didn't know - ordinary Poles usually can't afford nannies.

I'd be amazed if they starved.


Here in Warsaw having some form of child care is pretty much required (it's very hard for a family here to live on a single wage).

I thought so.


Well, here in the rest of Poland (lol), people in general usually simply can't afford nannies. And in the rest of Poland it's also hard to live on a single wage and usually both parents are working.

Maybe you do - but a relaxation of restrictive laws works very well indeed in the UK. I don't see Poles there insisting on a particular day of the week off.

And since you're pretending to be so keen to change the status quo in Poland, I don't see the shops empty on Sunday here, either.

Sure he doesn't.


I guess you would call that a scientific proof

I'd call it reality, and something that people are happy with.

Funny that so many of the people who actually live here want to see Sunday trading continued, while the people who don't live here and so won't be affected by any ban are in favour of the views of the minority being forced on the majority.


If you're aiming that comment at me (which you very are), I'd have to remind you that no matter how many times a lie is told it does not become the truth.

If I could 'like' posts on here, I would do it with this one. Just curious, since your posts says you have been, and not, you were, Does this mean you are now a person of faith or still a non believer?

I can't remember the exact quote [need to find it], but there is a well known piece of writing where someone explains his faith as being something he is not certain of, but would rather take that uncertain, but potentially wonderful lifestyle and belief, than the glum world we currently know and see, with nothing more to hope for.

Who are those "many people"?

aye! your reality, not to be mistaken with scientific research.