Pope Francis' anti-Polish encyclical? Criticism of coal burning in Poland.

But you'd want my to pay for your "green energy"

Why I cannot buy normal lightbulb anymore?

Why you cannot buy a lightbulb invented a 100 years ago anymore? Because 90% of your lightbulb was converted to heat not light and it's not a light bulb it's a heat bulb and a total waste. There was nothing normal about it starting from when the idea was stolen from tesla by the american and ending with how long it took to get rid of this stuff.

They do cost more to use, for the reason Marsupial has given.

We have green technology at home (heat exchangers, underfloor heating, off-grid water, led lighting, solar panels). It costs you nothing, saves us money, is kinder to the world, is sustainable, fits everything the Pope has just said and relies less on fossil fuels like coal.

Sorry jon I have to correct you. They cost more to buy but less to use and last longer. Not quite the same.

I cannot buy proper 100W lightbulb. Not in Poland.
Most of that eco-babble comes from the unholy marriage of giant corporations and retarded leftist activists. Example?

After the 2008 crisis there was a push, out of the blue, for swapping your old car for a new one - with gubrmint help. Naive leftists bleated we need this because polar bears are drowning and whatnot and so people went with the flow. Only later one of ministers let it slip that the automobile companies have been trying to push through that plan for over 10 years under all sorts of pretexts (boost up employment, support technological progress, promoting ecology yadda yadda). They had been unsuccessful because even the corrupt politicians felt the public would not swallow that. Only when the soft-brained hippies joined the plan could go through.

The same with the lightulb ban. Formally a measure to "reduce electicity consumption" and "save people's money" - which is completely retarded because if the CFLs are really good for people budget-wise they would be buying them on their own - but it's a public secret it was pushed through by the General Electric and Philips, first in South America, then everywhere else.

I could go on with "green" energy (backed by giant energy corporations), ethanol subsidies (totally corrupt agro-business), various restrictions on cigarette producers that shield huge tobacco companies from their smaller second/third world competition (all pushed through by Philip Morris) and on and on.

Each time the imbecile lefists with their utter inability to think things through screamed and yelled and everyone who disagreed was, ironically, shouted down as a coporate shill and generally evil person that wants to kill all polar bears.

Jesus Christ how I loathe leftism.

So you're opposed to the Pope's latest encyclical?

Energy efficiency has nothing at all to do with leftism or any other political view. It is a scientific problem. Your unscientific views are of no consequence to such a debate.

I meant the new ones! But yes.


Yes. Backed by solid research. There are still deniers though. One poster on here called Zimmy even tried to argue that oil wasn't a fossil fuel, that it was something that was being spontaneously and infinitely created!

Exacly jon. We have to accept that the world is ruled by fossil fuel barons who put a lot if money into making sure the gullible view this as some sort of social agenda and not what it is. But thats all changing now I can happily report.

No, I'm not, but you should be. People of your political coloration are constantly condemning the Church for sticking its nose in political or public affairs rather than sticking to its "religious superstitions" and rituals.

There you go again, making assumptions. As Pope go, he seems the best in the last 100 years - even more so than Paul VI - and his concern for the environment is timely, whatever the despicable coal lobby in PL may say.

Time and again we have all seen and heard every garden variety leftie, greenie, commie, anarchist and other Palikot-style foaming-at-the-mouth anticlerical condeming the Church whenever it oversteps the bounds of religion. The cause shouldn't matter, because a matter of principle is invovled: French style laïcité, total separation of Church and state. As a good anarcho-lefty you should be incensed.


Every Pole (with the possible exception of the Palikot and Miller gangs) will disagree with you on that one. JP2 was not only a great ecumenist bringing together people of different faiths and invalidating the excommunication imposed on heretics, but his inspiration helped free the eastern half of the continent from the clutches of what our great President Reagan called "the evil empire".

Stick to the topic please

Not much to do with the present excellent Pope's recent encyclical about saving the earth from material destruction. Odd how so many conservatives are opposed to sustainable development and the roll out of renewable energies.

Isn't is obvious?
Jon, Pope is infallible in questions concerning the faith and morals. And nothing more.
When he is giving ou his opinions about stuff like global warming or heliocentism, he is prone to error as any other human being.

Even if world is getting hotter I personally dont think we should care as Europeans or Poles.
And I dont think we should PAY to stop it, not when it benefits us more than costs (in Poland that is).

The pope is not saying the world is getting hotter or polluted or anything. He is repeating the indisputable scientific evidence presented to him by many advisors. He didn't do the research, millions of others did. We waited centuries for popes to even allow science. Anyway, it's too late for your lies and medival ignorance there are large concers now who have woken up to this like to give ypu only one single example..the rockafellas. They are now using their oil money to go this way. You should stop using the word tree huggers, it makes you seem even more primitive. Solving these problems does not involve hugging trees but I may need a hug from the wife after reading such nonsense. Poland is one of the best places to do this. Reliant on despots gas it will be liberating to get away from it. Oh, and we will get away from it and we will never stop fighting until we do. Lastly the money.....invest now a bit each week while we are all cheap because this won't last even several years. No need to lose money, you can make plenty.

Get away from what? The last shread of independence Poland still retains?
To give the Putin an Ace in the hole, he holds the hands over gas pipes, and EU will freeze during the winters they if we don't abide by his wishes?

Consequence to the choice of tree hugging; Poland still has coal mines working, only thing we need is to say F... you to EU regulations and Kyoto BS and we won't be susceptible to Uncle Vlad tantrums, Ukrainian instability or even new Ice Age... Of course PO politicians will fawn upon EU and even Russian to nausea before daring to take independent curse.

The dependance on putins gas will come to an end sooner than you think. The sooner the better. Russia has nothing to offer to anyone except diesesed dna and obsolete rubbish. Except to you ofcourse, comrade.

I beg to differ.

In my book, one of the biggest problems humanity has to face today is the lack of common project/dream to look forward to. The only thing politicians/government propose nowadays is to make sure that GDP continues to grow a few percent every year and that standards of living improve. I am not saying this is a bad thing (if only for the millions of people who are unemployed), quite the contrary, but there is nothing inspiring in that . Compare that to the Renaissance when new worlds were discovered or even to the 60s when everyone got up in the middle of the night to watch the first man on the moon (I was a kid by then).

We all know that the Earth will disappear in a few billion years. All that ecology can do is to delay the time when Earth becomes inhabitable, but it cannot change the fact that one day our planet will be engulfed by the sun. So shouldn't our governments be busy trying to put a manned expedition to Mars, as a first step to further reaches? I might be naive , but incidently I do think that this will help solve issues like terrorism, by having all of us focus on what we have in common ( we are all humans and have a common destiny) as opposed to what our differences are.

Reading that makes me definately try harder. That's why I am 1000s of kilometers away from family and tomorrow and all week will be working hard to ensure I can do my part to help make it happen. A small part. Reading that I definately know I am doing the right thing as a lot of humans are beyond help and some of us have to try to save ourselves from your way of thinking. So thank you for making it all worth it. I am done with this thread there is norhing more relevant to say of any use for me. Am glad to have my new ally the pope. Hope he lives for ever.

You are perfectly entitled to make your own fan, light bulbs or whatever inefficient device you want. But you cannot demand someone sells you that device or force someone else to buy it.

I'm sure you could make old fashioned light bulbs by hand for $50 each, money no object you can waste it as you like.

The rest of us are happier to buy low energy bulbs that save money.


The EU regulators can also say F... You, as can China. How about if China decides to say F... Poland's coal pollution and nukes it; all fair in a F... you world?

Blink. Tell that to your grandchildren when they appear and they will love you for it. And do you appreciate how much air pollution costs the tax payer in terms of health care? I suppose this point is moot though as Poland spends a pathetic 9% of it's GDP on healthcare.

Here in Tri-city people who insist on burning coal are spat at in the street, and rightly so.

After the disaster that was JP2 this pope seems like a good egg!

To me everyone that promotes a cleaner way of life deserves credit, be it the Pope or Pamela Anderson.

Here is a news story related to the subject of Polish coal.

thenews.pl/1/12/Artykul/211133,Coal-sector-in-a-hole

"Even the worst coal mines in the US are three times more productive than the average productivity of Polish coal mines," according to a report into Polish mining by the Warsaw Institute of Economics (WISE)"

This is to help people understand why the Polish coal mining industry is basically on its final breaths. It is not only bad management. It is no longer possible to extract coal economically from the mines in Poland because they have mined past the point of feasibility.

You got it all wrong. There is sill a lot of coal to be mined. The problem is just the bad management. The same problem is plaguing all Polish industries. As Korwin Mikke have said, if Poland have had a gold mine, it would soon become a money sink. It would have to be closed down, to reduce the costs.

I would say bad management is 90% of the problem, but it is not only bad management.
There is still a lot of coal, sure, but there are two problems with this remaining coal;
1. It is now very deep underground - the cost of digging all the way down there and bringing it up makes is uncompetitive. I mentioned elsewhere that Russian coal today in Poland costs less to buy (including shipping and customs) than Polish coal costs by the time it reaches the surface.

2. The remaining Polish coal is low grade lignite of poor calorific value in comparison to other European coals. Which makes its higher extraction cost even more damning.

Polsyr, where are you?

politico.eu/article/poland-duda-szydlo-coal-emissions-pollution-cop21


The whole article is worth a read, and shows how the coal mining industry in Poland can only survive with massive state subsidies.

I am burning Polish coal as we speak, it is really good stuff, more expensive than some of the imported coal but its worth it. Poland probably needs to get some of the UK mining kit over, I heard that the UK has just shutdown its last deep mine. As for the pope maybe he can build us a nice gas pipeline from Argentina so that we can be nice and clean and green and not be subject to Russian mood swings

"Argentina was the largest dry gas producer and the fourth largest petroleum and other liquids producer in South America." and if anyone says it would be expensive he has the cash in the Vatican bank.

We paid 620/tonne for what I've just learned was Russian coal. I have to say it's pretty good stuff, although I remember buying some a few years ago and that wasn't so good, and had a few rocks in it. What did you pay this year, dolno?

I paid 850 per ton orzech kamienny, heat output of 30j low sulfur and ash, I also use coke in my AGA at 900zl per ton, 32j smokeless

Ouch, but I guess you don't need much. Didn't know you could get Agas here. Not that I'd want one. My brother has one and it took him about two years to master it. Beautiful, though.

Brought the AGA over in the van about 600kj no problem to operate it. I have it on all year round works out to be £1.79 (one bucket of coke) a day to run it.