Poland Parliamentary elections 2015

ok back to topic...how is dozynanie watachy going for PO?dorzneli?

Interesting that your 'brain' immediately orientates itself to the Second World War, ignoring (and I used that word with precision) a massive military defeat, a violent revolution, huge financial reparations, years of hunger, an invasion by France, the worst regime the world has known, stunde null, twice (yes twice, remember) losing large chunks of territory to Poland, years of Stalin and his heirs and then painful re-unification.

Yet still they survived it all, and their neighbour Poland could do well to look long and hard at their political and parliamentary system. And as elections draw near, look at which parties look for closer relations with them.

Edit. The German reply bit was written before the mod intervened

I do think very much though that Poland has an example of good governance right on its border and this is heavily relevant given the various parties' positions come election time.

Those are excellent points. Something everyone knows but you put it in an especially expressive and hard-hitting way.

Two decades ago, Daewoo was bankrupt.

Certainly expressive in a jejune way, however largely irrelevant since the reconstruction in both places was complex (been to Berlin?) and in any case very close to going back off topic.

Thinking about Germany though, it's worth reflecting as the Polish general election approaches which parties are better or more ill disposed to Poland's most significant neighbour. Realpolitik v. Utopian fantasy. The concept of Ciemnogrod is very real and that particular political tendency has always been a disaster for Poland.

nahh..again ,you know very little about subject you are talking about.
actually -(noble) democracy and multiculti ,and..sic. tolerance was disastrous for Poland.with ethnic uprisings,pogroms,treachery,greed ,arenda,konfederacje, bribery ect,all coming in package with those enlightened thingies.

Ciemnogrod ,traditional orientated,monoethnical Piast Poland was doing great


been in post war warsaw?

I'm there now, though if by post war you mean years ago, then actually yes. That's going off topic however. Not but what, a comment you tried to make is worth looking at furthering the context of this year's elections.

Your statement


proves my point


beautifully. You're actually praising (albeit inaccurately and misplacedly) the impossible while spurning the achievable.

neither PIS is Utopian nor PO real politic..unless you call diplomacy made on knees and political prostitution -real politic.

If you call emerging as a significant European power "diplomacy made on knees" and being so far an economic, cultural and political success story "political prostitution", then you would be right. But you aren't.

As for the PiSuarzy being utopian, perhaps you're right; Utopianism is about wanting good things, which they don't. Morbid fantasists would be a better appraisal.

you kidding right? we are not even being seen as regional power,not even being seen as serious as last eastern partnership summit showed.
best indicator was ukraine peace negotiation process...we made ourself an idiots,through our hysterical behavior towards Russia.is that realpolitic?
Orban is not PO CLOWNS.
even here are voices,that britain ignorant in east events and politics,trusted Poland in this matter and backed Kiev fully..now thay are like,what the fcuk we been supporting,as images from war crimes comited by Kiev and destroyed cities emerge.one by another EU country pulling back hard stance towards Russia and look at Poland and Baltic states like crazy bunch.nobody talks with us regarding Ukraine any longer. especially after sikorskis "memory loss"

reallpolitic my ass

You have a very distorted view of politics here (that bit about Russia and Orban actually made me laugh) if you think Poland hasn't made huge progress since Platforma were elected. Especially compared to the tragi-comedy of the PiSuarzy and their appalling coalition partners.

In the scheme of things, how Russia etc look at Poland is a small issue in the scheme of things (assuming they aren't about to illegally invade as they have in brave little Ukraine). How the economy has grown, how Poland has helped the rest of free Europe deal with the Putinist threat, how Poland has grown in stature on the European stage, inward (and outward) investment, artistic, cultural, educational (even sporting) achievements and progress in Human Rights all count much more. Po.and has done well in all of these under Platforma's watch, though there is still a way to go. The real struggle is keeping the PiSuarzy and the other forces of Ciemnogród far away.

progress???? on world stage politic? they utterly destroyed every little regional influence and powers we had,including leadership in e.partnership and wisechrad group,,which is fkng DEAD.what progress on international stage PO made?where? ahhh i forgot..we have 200 US soldiers,greatest fruit of sikorskis diplomacy.


of course they are...i cant stand smolensk sect as well. unfortunately we don't have conservative ,non religious ,economy orientated party in Poland,like torries in Britain.they would have my vote.


you are delusional..nobody even invited Poland to Minsk..all we helped is US putting fire on this country,
and one day we will be to blame for that,even by ukrainians.

Show one solid piece of evidence that the EU and NATO are not fully behind Polands stance on Russia?

This is wandering...... back to the topic

who said they dont? you unable to differ organizations from countries?
i was saying about change in approach in EU countries towards Russia.
Britain was tough towards Russia,now there are voices, demanding independence referendum in Donbass,no more "terrorists" bollocks

Of course Daewoo went bust, and a Ukrainian state firm jumped at the opportunity, acquired the rights to the works and for a time assembled Chevrolet Aveo cars in agreement with GM before selling their stake to GM. These Korean-designed cars with Italian bodywork cars are now being sold under the Chevrolet marque. Since the Polish operation was based at Żerań in right-bank Warsaw, it would have been logical and conveneint for the Poles to take it over. But they were not a player or bidder and just stood idly by and let those assets be swept away from under their noses.

Actually we do: Platforma. Although they're a little too religious for my taste, they aren't beholden to the Curia and tick all the other boxes.

"Poland made a huge progress with PO" sounds like a good topic for a stand-up comedian show.

Glad to see I made my point about Poland (finally) looking at what their German neighbours do right and learning from it. Kaczynski can do one.

You know it makes sense :)

but... with PO comes some additional features? such as widespread corruption,incompetence,murky past,questionable morals.
lolo.people talks about PO economy and governing competences..hahahaha
fkn forgot about Mucha,drzewiecki,palikot,pitera,grabarczyk,nowak,diplomat with dementia sikorski o ffs

have you guys noticed that polish p.ministers who ruined Poland most,had best EU career?
like buzek and tusk
buzek virtually left Poland on knees and in sh.thole...right into eu top position.


first of all..you dont compare grow in poor developing country to most developed countries ..simply. 3 - 5 % grow for developed country is very good,for poor country in the middle of Europe and billions of euro funds flowing is a joke.PIS had almost 7% grow with little funding from EU.

3 % grow under PO leadership is laughable considering Poland is developing country.
another thing is,how was this grow achieved,think about from massive national debt increase,squandering money from demographic reserves,ofe ect.,those things will cripple Polands grow capabilities in the future.already taxes were risen to mantain budget.

more taxes-less grow

You really are a clown. Up to that point Buzek was the best prime minister Poland had had since the war. Now go back to school and learn to read your political history - and I don't mean Gazeta Polska. And yes , I was here. And unlike you, I have an education.


You understand nothing about what the EU brought to Poland. How old are you? 100? Are you an ex commie? It was clear to the markets as early as 1998 that Poland was a shoe-in for EU expansion.

Get down on your knees and worship Brussels. Without them you would still be wiping your arse with sandpaper. Were you here in communism? I sure as **** was. Now grow up boy.

Thre EU viewed Poland as a fair-sized consumer market to exploit and peddle their goods in. They also siphoned off the most valuable workers in a brain-drain of unprecedented proportions.They turned Poland into a land of mercenaries in their own country underpaid by greedy foreign corporations.

And, yes, they did throw money Poland's way, but much of it ended up in the pockets of corrupt officials from the ministry down to the hamlet level.

A Polish manufacturer would have had no easy access to the EU, so where would these cars be sold? They would have had to compete with western car makers on all markets - no chance whatsoever to win. Nah, I believe it was a good decision not to waste any money on Daewoo. A Polish factory would not be competitive cost-wise compared to China, Mexico or Colombia for example, where the second generation Chevrolet Sonic are built these days. On the long run, Poland would have lost jobs. And not to forget: GM almost went belly up a few years later.

Well the Dacia folks somehow made it. The former east bloc would be a logical market as well as the Third World. Polish Nysa vans in PRL were successfully sold to Egypt and other Third World countries. Poles could undercut Western prices before EU introduced its anti-dumping laws. Besides, not everybody wanted or needed a super-ultra-mega-hi-tech self-parking car stuffed with electronics. There were and continue to be markets where simplicity, easy maintenace and do-it-yourself repairs are a selling point. What was lacking was a good conceptualist/troubleshooter who would have done the necessary marketing research, created a business plan and launched production.

I'm not sure it was really that easy right after the fall of the Wall. The way I remember the late 1980's and early 1990's, almost everybody from the former Warsaw Pact countries wanted a car from the west. The used car market was completely drained during those times, and all the old brands from the east (Polski Fiat, Lada, Skoda, Trabant and others) were either taken over by western corporations or simply disappeared. Dacia was bought by Renault, that's why they survived. But you need a whole lot of capital and staying power to transform an entire brand into a competitive product. Something Polish investors of that time probably didn't have.

Poland Parliamentary elections 2015 is the topic

Mod: This refers to the parliamentary elections and analyses the impact of the past, present and future politcal scene on the economy.

You did not hear me say Poland should have marketed the Syrenka. The Daewoo line was not bad for that period, on par with Hyundai and Kia which are now big sellers. Had Poland acquired Daewoo's Polish operaiton it would already have had a decent product to market. Poland's cheaper manpower would have served Poland for a change, not forieng capital. World-class cars could be sold more cheaply and price is always a selling point. The profits from sales could be re-invested in Poland's motor industry to upgrade and modernise.

In short, they wouldn't have been able to sell in the west, because they wouldn't have been able to afford the licences to those markets, but the prices would have been too high for the developing world, due to the costs of Polish labour being higher than, for example, Chinese labour and due to the product being more complex (due to things such as airbags and other modern technology), plus the factory still would have been very inefficient.

The mistake of building a product which couldn't be sold in the west and was too expensive for the east and was made at a terrible factory is precisely the same mistake that was made in the 1970s with the Ursus tractor factory. Billions of dollars were poured down the drain there on a brand new factory which is now derelict.

Let's hope that the winners of the parliamentary elections aren't so utterly moronic that they advocate making precisely the same mistakes that were made by Poland in the past.

Merged: Duda-Szydło tandem likely to rule Poland

President-elect Andrzej Duda was reported by GW as saying he felt his campaign chief Beata Szydło would make a fine PM. When PiS win the autumn election, that seems his likey choice.

At present it appears the voting will go as follows: PiS 36%-40%, Kukiz 20% - 25% and PO 15% - 20%. No other paries are likely to cross the 5% threshold, but it they do it would probably be SLD, PSL and possibly (but very unlikely) KORWIN.

NOTE: For the benefit of non-Polish PF-ers, szydło means crocheting needle (something with which to puncture and let the hot air out of the Platformer balloon if they start acting up again).

Does anyone actually believe that Kaczyński won't do what he did with Marcinkiewicz and just remove her from power as soon as she starts showing any signs of independence?

PiS will win 30% of the vote. Where the other 70% goes, who knows - but I don't believe that Kukiz can win against an organised PO/SLD/PSL campaign. It's easy to get votes as a one-man candidate, but it's much harder to translate it into electoral success in parliamentary elections. For a start, Kukiz needs to be able to field roughly 4600 candidates!

That adds up to 85%. The rest will be squandered on below-threshold groupings.
SLD made a fool of themselves with Miss Cucumber, and much of the PSL electroate has transfefrred their support to PiS. The big questonb in the equation is Kukiz. He is anti-systemic but but he glowers with paricular contempt and disdain for the oldboy, scam & kickback Platformers. Will PiS be able to go it alone (the exact number of seats depends on how the other parties fare)? If they cannot, then some type of coalition arrangement with Kukiz seems inevitable. It could be a formal coalition with a share-out of cabinet posts, or a voting coalition -- a pledge to support measures proposed by the PiS government. In the latter case PiS would have to stick to measure that Kukiz MPs could support.

The best thing that in either case PO would be an insignifcant opposition urinating in the wind. And it serves them right after their years of hate-industry bullying.

Spot on.

Many outsiders (and even some Poles) here wouldn't necessarily know about it or if they're a PiS supporter want to acknowledge it (in fact they'd probably get in a typical PiS flap at the very suggestion), SLD and PiS are much closer on a local party (and business) level than either party would care to admit. It isn't unimaginable that they'd strike a deal to keep their rival out.

Easy to forget also the PiS PO (unfortunate name) coalition project that never happened in the end.

And yes, PSL always do better in elections than in surveys.