Poland Parliamentary elections 2015

So you hate 28 percent of Poles?

@Pol: Yes, expats in Poland live among the very rich. I do too but I am well aware that these rich only make up max 2% of the Polish population and that the rest thereof have to struggle like dogs to make ends meet .... I understand that most Poles are fed up of PO.

At PiS' last re-election convention party chief Kaczyński said:
"My party is coming to power not for money. PiS reject ambionist motives and revanchism." Re the PO's tape scandal he said: "There can be no acquiesence to the influence of lobbies or corporations. We shall enforce the law but there can be no thought of revenge. That must be our principle. That is difficult but PiS is up to the challenge. We should already now be thinking about what will be after out victory. That must be a time of work for the ruling authorities, Poland may be having fun but the authorities must perform. We must appoint people to posts on the basis our their capabilties."

polskatimes.pl/artykul/9018887,konwencja-pis-kaczynski-bedziemy-egzekwowac-prawo-ale-o-zemscie-nie-moze-byc-mowy,id,t.html

Let's talk situations :

PiS+Kukiz are on 47.7% combined.
PO+Nowoczesna are on 34.5% combined

If ZL pass the threshold - then we have PiS+Kukiz on 47.7% along with the rainbow coalition on 48.1%.

I think this entire election is hinging on two things - can ZL meet the 8% barrier (which is still a terrible result for them), and can Kukiz hold on?

If ZL make it and Kukiz doesn't, then PiS have lost the election. If ZL make it and Kukiz makes it, I have no idea. If ZL don't make it and Kukiz does, then PiS/Kukiz are logical coalition partners and should hold a majority.


I'm not so sure that it's as dramatic as the polls suggest. A lot of the "undecided" voters are swinging between PO and Nowoczesna for instance - I've got several friends that simply don't know.


I wish, Polonius. if I had a yuppie-type expat existence, I'd be able to establish a chain of social schools based on the needs of poor children (i.e., the school would fit the kids, not the other way round).

Worth pointing out that I've only actually voted PO once, and that was for a PO-backed candidate rather than a PO member that was a candidate.

Wulkan - you're correct. We can only dream of cleaning toilets for tips.


Hahahahahahahaa.

PiS, appointing people fairly? That'll be the day!

Anti-catholic is definitely not the same as anti-clerical.

There is a lot of really believing Catholics who really do not like the current situation in the Church.

Like in the Kukiz's song - the priest has a Toyota (and the song is from 1992, short after the fall of communism - I can imagine there were definitely not many western cars on Polish streets these time and they had to belong to rich people), the police have only a Nysa:

google.de/search?q=nysa+samoch%C3%B3d&biw=1366&bih=617&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIi4WuorbXyAIVyTcUCh2bkQq8

- in other words, the money go to the Church and not for the country needs.

Looking at the title ("ZChN is coming") - it seems to be a vision how the country was supposed to look like if the ZChN (Christian National Union) party won the elections. Which is definitely exagerrated, but the Church in Poland isn't definitely poor, and it's common that a priest has a good car.

And this is the subject of criticism.

Ok, there is also the thread of the priest getting drunk in that song - but still, it's a criticism of the Church, not the catholicism.

@Delph: "your friends are undecided between PO and Petru"!!! Do you if not mingle with at least see the non privilieged Poles? According to official figures, 70% of Poles make less than 2,700. Most Poles struggle, have to go West for bread, live in lousy tiny flats with often grand parents. I know that 99.99%, including you and including me, expats only deal with the very rich but the others exist too. I don't mingle with them but I see them and no big deal to see them since they are far more numerous. Even in Warsaw, often I come across people that amaze me as they are so poor and look so desperate that they seem to come from another planet. Often I travel on trams/buses coming from or going to dirt poor areas outside of Warsaw and I am often scarred as people look "very different" from the Poles I interact with. Of course, in Polska B, things are much worse. Early this year, I spent one day at Nowy Sącz and I'm still shocked. I happen to regularly go to Katowice and believe me, in some areas, it looks like in books written by Dickens and by Zola. When I go to Saint Sephen's cemetary in Bogucice, I cross areas that look like not much "better" than those described by Zola in "Germinal". I wouldn't dare walking through them even during day. Do you expect people living there to vote (if they ever do) for PO or for Petru? What do they get out the "Polish prosperity"? Nothing and you'd like them to be "thankful"?

You do interact twith the very rich but open your eyes and look at the lot of most Poles. Of course Poland has developed (thanks to EU money ;)) over the past few years but the whole Polish population have not benefitted from all this. Only let's say 10% of the population live "properly". Most Poles have it too tough and there is the reason why they don't vote for PO and they vote for PiS and quite a few others.

You know, you need to go beyond YOUR and your friends' personal situation but consider the WHOLE population.

As I said, we need to respect Poles' choice. They seem to want PiS and no matter what, we, foreigners, have no business to criticize their choice. I suppose that they know Poland better than we do and even if people are poor, they are not stupid and have to be respected.

Sorry, we, foreigners, have to right to think and act as neo-colonialists. I for sure don't.

Calm down because your attitude has become .... not normal! :)

How long have you been in Poland? I was here in the early 90s and there is _no_ comparison. I was also in a research project that brought me in contact with the underclass then and if you don't think there's been _huge_ progress then you're dreaming.

What seems to have happened in Poland is that those living more precarious existences had informal family-and-friend based networks to help them and did not have a big consumer mentality because this wasn't long after communism where there wasn't anything to consume. And a large majority of Polish people then knew how to make and live on a household budget. The networks seem to be breaking down, they've had a taste of consumerism and budget skills have largely been lost. That all spells discontent.

I totally get why they're upset and want a change (ruling parties in parliamentary systems almost always lose support over time). I think that PO has done a reasonably okay job (not great but Poland has avoided the worst of the ongoing economic crisis so far and that should count for something). But I really don't think PiS is about the economy. It's about shifting blame (turning Polish people against each other, look Polonius3 who despises Poles who aren't poor and pious enough for his taste).

Economically I don't think PiS has any strategy beyond promising election sausage that they won't be able to deliver (hopefully they won't deliver because they'll drive the whole country into Greece-dom if they get their way).

@Maf: For your info, the first time I put a foot in Poland was in March 1990 and I got married in Katowice in June 1990 and since then a lot of trips to the country before settling with Polish husband. Nobody can deny that most Poles live in poverty and have to think of emigrating in order to eat and feed their family. Yesterday I heard on tv that Poland was the EU country with the highest precarity % and also among the worst one in terms of difference between the rich and the poor. Yes, around max. 20% of Poles make it but it means that most of them do not. I do know that most expats mingle with the rich only but it does not mean that others do not exist. When I hear about life of those people, I am shocked, a lot of them just survive. Earlier today, the owner of a language school told me that in areas such as Bialystok and consorts, teachers on umowa o dzieło (= no benefits of any kind) were paid .... 25zl/hour. If you think this is "ok", I invite you to try ;)

You may not know them and even see them but believe me, they do exist. Maybe you should look at the world the way it is and not the way you imagine it.

Here is a rather interesting insight from Gazeta Wyborcza about a number of issues.

The columns represent the party which respondents indicated they would vote for, and the gray column is the overall average percentage.
The rows represent which of the following they said they would NOT want to have as a neighbor:
- Refugees
- Homosexuals
- Foreign workers
- Atheists
- Followers of different faith
- People of different race
- People with conflicting political views
- Families with children conceived in-vitro.



The article title means PiS voters are more afraid of their neighbors than the rest of Poles (this is not my opinion, this is a translation of the title of the article). The last column on the right gives a clear indication in terms of what type of people would vote for the former singer.

wyborcza.pl/1,75478,19071919,wyborcy-pis-boja-sie-sasiadow-bardziej-niz-reszta-polakow.html#ixzz3pN0xJliY

What an utterly bizarre poll! Why would anyone even ask the question 'would you object to living beside a family with an IVF conceived child'??

@Polsyr: I remember some years ago, the question was asked to lyceum kids from several EU countries re having Jews for neighbors and the most hostile were .... Poles. Most Poles have never seen anybody different and therefore they are scarred and they are against ;)

It's not exactly a secret that a lot of his support comes from the racist moron minority.


It's a good way of finding out who thinks that they are a Christian but have in reality completely and utterly missed the point of everything Jesus taught.

Actually, overall percentage that oppose having neighbors of different race or religious is 20.4 and 22% respectively (being slightly higher for different religion), and in both cases far from being a majority. So saying that "Most Poles" oppose is not correct :)

@Polsyr: I am saying that MOST Poles have never seen anyone different from them and it is NOT contradictory to poll since purely hypothesis ;) since MOST Poles don't live next to Jews, Muslims, gays, atheists, etc etc...

I'm not an expat, and I don't mingle with the rich. I live in a working class neighborhood in Poznań next to a deska and some probably pre-war buildings. And I have regular direct contact with people living in villages (and used to be in daily contact with one of the poorest populations in Poland).

Yeah, a lot of people are in precarious positions (and some are really desperate) but I'm not registering the horrific conditions (80 % desperate poverty) that you are, maybe your standards are too high..... I dunno. I have noticed greater levels of stratification in Warsaw than in western Poland where I live.

I understand that people have had it with PO (for mostly good reasons) but I don't think PiS is going to do anything for them (and PiS economic ideas could lead to real damage and an increase in the precarious class - what motivation will PiS have to improve things if that means voters being less dependent on them?)

That is correct.


You are right on both accounts.

@Polsyr: yes, this is what I meant. The poll of course is pure theory since hardly any Pole has neighbors who are different ;). Since Poland is the most homogeneous country of Europe, with everybody being white and of European stock and catholic, it makes sense that MOST Poles have never seen anyone different.... This needless to say does not help re ... tolerance and mind opening ;););)

besides how would you even know if your neighbour's baby was conceived with IVF?

"Most Poles have never seen anybody different and therefore they are scarred and they are against ;)"

Jesus Christ ! Creature, vast majority of Poles have been at least once abroad, usually in western Europe, many lived there for years, each of large cities here have thousands of foreigners, a few are even in nearly every small town. The reason why majority of Poles are far from being enthusiastic about uncontrolled mass immigration is because they SAW FIRST HAND THE EFFECTS IN WESTERN EUROPE -> and those are first of all fault of the far left tree huggin approach of "elites" of those countries. The whole refugee madness is just another stage of this tragedy.

@G: even when living abroad, Poles usually live in ghettos and do not mingle for sure with Blacks, Muslims, Jews, Indians and whatever "exotic" ....... However, how many Indians, Muslims, Jews... has Jacek Kowalski mingled with in Radom, Kielce or you name-it?

@Rozu: obviously true! :)

The idea that most Polish people have never seen anyone different from them is nonsense. This means the majority of Polish people have never been in one of the ten or so biggest cities in Poland where there are small but visible minorites.

It's true the most Polish people have no close acquaintance with non-Poles but that's a different question. I know a number of non-Westerners and none of them complain about open hostility as anything but a pretty rare occurence (yes, I know it happens, but it's not like it's a routine daily experience).

@Maf: there are so few "different" people in Poland that by pure maths, it is impossible that a lot of Poles do interact with them. Even in Warsaw, how many Varsovians do mingle with people who are different? How many Varsovians do interact and even socialize with Blacks, Indians, Jews, homosexuals, even ... transexuals.... ? I would say fewer than 1% of total Varsovian population.

Exactly, but you wrote 'seen', every person who's spent more than a few hours in Warsaw in the last twenty years has seen blacks or vietnamese or arabs.

I agree that a large majority doesn't really interact with them.

"even when living abroad, Poles usually live in ghettos and do not mingle for sure with Blacks, Muslims, Jews, Indians and whatever "exotic" "

Right. Poles abroad usually live in low-rent areas that are FULL of Arabs, blacks, Pakis etc. Nonsense after nonsense after nonsense.

Sorry muliculti we don't need you here in Poland.Doors are locked but If you dare coming through the window you can fall on face and break yourself.Thank you.Goodbye.

@Maf and G: I seriously doubt that most Poles do ever sociolize with .... Arabs, Blacks, Vietnamese, Indians and whoever "exotic" ;) be abroad or in big Polish cities. And as to outside of Polish big cities, one can count "exotic looking people" on the fingers of one hand.

Pre-election survey results from pollster Polska Press Grupa:

PiS - 39,5

PO - 24,5

Lewica - 9,0

Kukiz'15 - 7,5

Nowoczesna - 6,0

PSL - 6,0

KORWiN - 4,5

Razem - 2,0

ever heard of the language barrier ?

1. @Gumi; what about Vietnamese speaking Polish in Poland and everybody speaking English in UK????? ;). Poles speaking English don't sociolize with Blacks, Indians, and consorts in UK ;)! And what about most Poles' attitude towards Jews, homosexuals and others, a problem of language????? ;). "lol"

2. another poll :
wyborcza.pl/1,75478,19075373,sondaz-wyborczy-newsweeka-szanse-na-mandaty-ma-az-osiem-ugrupowan.html

Polls are polls and sometimes even contradictory.

This survey sounds pretty credible. Both Kopacz and Szydło performed rather badly in the TV debate on Tuesday. Szydło used to start her answer to every question with "Szanowni Państwo" which was really irrtating. In fact, she had nothing interesting to say and she has become really dull recently. Kopacz repeated things like a parrot and tried to play the tune of "horrible PiS is coming to town", but she should have realized that this is a broken record now and does not appeal to anyone except the British expats here on the PF. Kukiz is irritating per se when he is saying something. I remember he was much better in the early stage of the campaing.

The best performer was Adrian Zandberg whom the parents brought from Denmark to Poland some 30 years ago (possibly a Danish father and a Polish mother). If it is him who is under "Razem - 2,0%", I would have expected he would get more votes at the expense of Kukiz'15.

As I wrote in another thread to which no one reacted except Grzegorz, the ever increasing gap between labour productivity and the level of wages in Poland (3,3% versus 0,9% a year for the last 10 years; the worst result in the EU) makes people feel their economic situation is getting worse. And indeed it has become worse for them since they work more while their wages stay almost the same. That undoubtedly make them vote PiS, Kukiz and the like, and may make them vote Zandberg.