Poland Parliament elections in October 2011

are Polonia most voters? use some logic before you write anything

Yes they would it was in their program, they promised to to abolish state funding for political parties, and they have manged to cut it by 1/2 despite the opposition of PIS who wanted their snouts to remain firmly in the trough. This shows that they are genuine about reform, so why shouldn't I believe them?


It's nothing more than a rubber stamp doing the lower houses' bidding (it's not fulfilling its function as a house of review), it should be gone-besides the actual chamber looks awful.

The number of members of the Sejm should be cut by 60 from 460, the new total should be 400. The sejm goes for the number of regional assemblies and local councils.

Only PO and Palikot can make this happen. PIS types generally have very little business experience, and rely on the state for their existence.

I know this question was aimed at gumishu but I think he is a good leader who knows his stuff. There is nothing wrong with him being in charge. In terms of winning an election though, I say with a lot of deep regret, that the media has destroyed Kaczynski so much now, that PiS may need someone else to take charge to be able to convince people who don't normally vote for them, to vote for them. Problem is the media might just do the same to whoever took charge of PiS next.

As for the elections themselves. Delphiandomine you made a comment on how there is no Poland A and Poland B and that Poland now supports PO. [About] 40% voted for PO and [about] 30% voted for PiS, if the exit polls are right. How is that a PO dominance?

I was surprised at how well the RP Palikota did. To be honest it shocked me when they made it over 1% so to see them get close to 10% was frightening. I assume he mostly took the SLD electorate, possibly a few unhappy PO voters.

It is a shame [in my view] that PO is still in charge, but it was predictable. This means we are not going to have a fair and detailed investigation in to the airplane crash in Russia, that is put forward by the government [although PiS are still going to do what they can]. It also means corruption is still going to reign supreme in certain areas. I wonder what it is going to take for people to wake up? Perhaps if they find that almost every business in Poland is run by Germans and they are just cheap workers. Perhaps if Putin or Medvedev openly says he cannot stand our country. I dunno.

Yes...

you are very wrong on this - in the past the Senate would often amend drawbacks and idiocies in the law that passed through the Sejm


a very real financial kick in their backs will awake them and it's coming - not that they will learn much from it

Let's see if people really know what they were voting for.

My question to resident Poles is:

Please name the 5 core values of each major party, i.e PO, PiS and SLD. Oh, has Kommie died? I never hear of the man. The Silent President

you really don't follow Polish politics Sean - you haven't noticed that Mr Pres woke up just before the election - has given a profound interview to Monika Olejnik (quite funny actually if one follows his word and logics)

That still doesn't answer the first part. Kommie is inept and has nothing like the role of Medvedev.

pretty difficult - PiS is a well meaning party even if they revert to populism - they are bad liars Kaczyński a very bad liar

Tusk is able to actually convince himself into believing in what he is going to say next - that's why he's such a good liar, poser - he really believes he's the best thing that could happen to Poland - that's why he comes across as very convincing to many who don't know details

I know it's not the answer you expected but for me your question is quite difficult

Core values - define core values

PiS is a party which focus on a state and nation. They basic assumption is that there is a nation organized into a state and said state should provide the best environment for a nation to develop and grow.

Hence - importance of a state being in control of banks or some assets rather then handed them over to international corporations.
That state should run some noncommercial services like railways which in long run would benefit an average citizen.

PO is a party which focus on groups and friends and supported - a state is there to provide an opportunity for friends and associates of PO to enrich themselves, state assets are there to provide another opportunity to grabs some monies for those in position to do it.

That some of those buyers will be able to use those assets to the disadvantaged of the Polish state and whats-more to majority of Poles - is no concern of PO, they do not care about people but themselves.

You are right about that, still it doesn't stop from doing it constantly.

I can subscribe to that as most of the PiS voters

Above everything else PO is a pragmatic party suspicious of grand ideology. Their fundamental belief is based on the inherent worth of the individual. they believe in society, but they do not believe that society is the same thing as the state. Specifically their leader Tusk, is an inclusive politician willing to utilize the talents of all willing people from across the political spectrum for the benefit of the country, as an individual he is suspicious of people who have a grand design and one size fits all policy for everything.

As for PIS they only have two real guiding principle, oppose everything the government does on principle, and do everything at all cost to get in power-including the shameless trumpeting of nationalism and shrouding themselves in the flag. They are willing to debase the very coinage of patriotism for self promotion, and they give all real patriots a bad name by doing so in the process.

JK needs to move along. Last chance saloon was an early 'sympathy election' after his twin brother died. He is a smart man but just not so widely trusted amongst the Polish electorate.

He is not, he is quite dumb actually, and completely lacking in emotional intelligence-thus totally unable show empathy to the average voter. That is why he did not mingle with normal people during the campaign-like Tusk, or dared to take Tusk on in a debate.

His greatest weakness however is that he is completely self centered, and he does not do self deprecation.

you should make one such analysis on yourself too, hague - you've got a talent

I will have go, and see how it turns out(:

now you see that is known as self deprecation, I am telling you this because this a very unfamiliar attitude among PIS types, so you might not have come across this term before(:

Wojciech Olejniczak, MEP, former SLD boss
What a frank observation! :-)

no I haven't come across such a term - must be because I am a boaster :)

Er no. Where did you get this information? Is that what Polsat and TVN told you? He went to see many people and so did Tusk, only Tusk did it with a Tusk-o-bus.

As far as him not daring to have a debate with Tusk, that is not because he fears Tusk. He is simply not trusting of the media. The debate would never take a place on an even playing field. Unfortunately they are currently the mainstream media so PiS polititians have to sometimes go on there or they would have practically zero media coverage. They try to get a word in, when they can, but are rarely given the chance to.

He certainly is able to rouse his electorate, that much is sure. What he knows - well - if we view politics as solely about winning votes, he does it well. But not well enough - he's now lost something like 14 elections and won 2 in his entire time as a political leader.


The media didn't destroy Kaczynski, he destroyed himself. A lot of the time, especially in the last year - Gazeta Wyborcza made a distinct point of reporting nothing but his actual words. Often, it was enough.


It's not PO dominance, but rather a clear rejection of PiS and their ideology. You might look at the 40-30% split and think 'hmm, close' - but when you consider that 70% of the seats in the Sejm have gone to parties that are ideologically opposed to PiS - it's a very clear rejection.


Do you have any evidence that the crash wasn't investigated properly? The military prosecutors would be *very* interested in hearing from you.


You do realise that PiS has their own problems with corruption, too?

I'm sitting in a Polish owned business right now that has gone from 2 employees to 40 employees (actually, technically, more like 50 when you count part time workers) in 2 years. This isn't the exception, but the rule. Incidentally, what's the problem if the businesses are owned by Germans, or indeed anyone else? Germans don't have a problem with Poles owning businesses there.

At the end of the day, telling people to 'wake up' and suchlike is just going to cause not 4, but 8 years in the wilderness. Palikot got 10% because people are sick of Solidarity/Communist politicans dictating to them.

Let's see Tusk mingle with the people outwith election time. Otherwise he will just be taken as false. He should play some footie in amongst some locals.

heh :) you're funny sometimes delphi (or have a very picky sense of information acquisition (or don't bother to read stuff)


go on and name these problems - a sizeable list please


yeah, sure people prefer to be told everythings all right becasue they want to believe this - well it is still not bad in Poland but some very particular policies of the PO will lead to a not so bright economical conditions in the next few years

I think many of my students came up with better policies and plans for the future than the main political parties did. PO seemed to play down the roads situation rather well. Foreigners will be using Polish roads for EURO 2012 and Tusk would have down everyone a favour by expediting the repairwork.

I think Ironside said it well a few posts up. PiS wants the country to be run by the state, to some degree, to avoid the chance of Poland one say being run by a bunch of foreign companies. If you leave it open and let anyone in, the consequences could be worse than you can imagine.

I mean look at Biedronka as just one example. I know it is just a shop but we see adverts of the wonderful Polish products that have, and what? The profits go to foreigners. Great. No imagine railways also being run by foreigners, and perhaps other transport. Factories too. As far as I know there are already a number of factories that are foreign. As you see, slowly but surely the country is going to be a goldmine for foreing businesses, using a Polish worker as labour, and cheap I might add. Hey who knows, eventually they might not even use the Polish people but find foreigners who can do it for even less. I see this happening where I am and do not want to see it happening in Poland. People can laugh it off as a conspiracy theory but if it does happen, it's going to be too late.

Also to comment on polititions who go out and talk to people before the elections. It is getting tedious. Why do they not do this while they are in charge? Pope John Paul II did not go and visit countries in the last few years of his life to show that he cares, he did it throughout his 27 year reign as Pope. What polititians do before an election is what they need to be doing in their 4 years of rule.

"Foreign" owned businesses, factories etc ??

This is quite normal for open market capitalism. It goes with the territory.

Should Poland perhaps give back some of the billions in foreign EU funding ?

Well you could use the same argument for other parties. 60% rejected PO, but yet you think they are 'all the rage.' If PiS is finished then Palikot might as well not bother either [wish he didn't] since 90% rejected him. Same goes for SLD, rejected by about 92%.

I basically disagree with just about everything Palikot stands for. I think PiS is far from finished, they just need a new direction. I agree that they might need a different style and talk about different things in order to bring in new voters. I also don't think there is much of a danger in losing much of their current electorate, even if they made a few changes, because there is no alternative. A PiS voter is not likely to turn to PO, and even less likely to turn to any of the others, even if PiS made a few alterations in their politics.

Currently up 3.86% against USD, so I guess getting elected was a very good thing for Poland.

No, that's nothing to do with it. PiS wants the companies to be run by the State so that they can guarantee menial, worthless jobs for all the unemployed, lazy moustaches who want a return to the Communist way of doing things - where they had guaranteed holidays, flats, cars, etc.


What makes you think that Poles don't have shares in Jeromino Martins?


Ah, PiS logic - give us the cash, but we don't want to actually..you know...allow you to do anything.


But there's one thing you're missing - PiS are ideologically opposite to the other parties. It's not just PO, but the PSL/RP/SLD too - all these parties are totally opposite to PiS.


You disagree with the free market, opportunities for youth, fair taxation for all, decent living wages, etc?


History shows that there's not much they can do - 30% is about their level of support. Unless they change completely, they'll never get the magic 40% number, and those changes will alienate the lunatic 10% or so.


Not quite. If they dropped a lot of the POLSKA NASZA POLSKA stuff - that 10% of lunatics who vote for them based on that crap would find someone else to support. As it stands, their strategy guarantees them perpetual opposition, but still 30%.

PiS aren't finished, but Kaczynski is.

delphi are you sure you talk about the same Palikot me and Ironside do

we'll see - the next election is not in two weeks - things can change -and drastically