an interesting article in the last issue of Polityka about the election and who is who. The truth is that somebody has to be elected, but the at this point anything can happen.
As for me personally, I am more familiar with PO and I know what I can expect, while PiS is power hungry and most likely unpredictable, although one has to admit that Kaczynski has gained some power and managed to recover to some degree PiS. However, he is on the revenge road and is waiting patiently to pay back to all those who have hurt his pride in the past and that aloe does not make him a good candidate for the new PM in Poland- there is way too much " prywata' in his way of thinking.
Yes, I saw gazillion links all over the Polish internet related to the candidacy of "poor" Anna Kalata and Marek Król. I do not know their stories and - frankly - I do not really care to know them.
you don't want to know and you want to be a judge at the same time - well - of course you can - but it doesn't make you a just and wise judge - suit yourself
And of all those 200,000 entries "Kalata Król" how many do you think are worthy anything at all? Very possibly, one will be able to find the "post-mortem" data of the Kalata-Król case (and similar ones) after the election. Then, one will be able to sort and judge. Up till now all is talk. Cheap, emotional talk.
The fact is, in both cases the PKW rejected 500-600 names from their lists.
PKW rejected these supporters because the handwriting was 'difficult to read' (I have never signed such a candidate support list but I guess you need to sign it with your full name and with some people this can later prove difficult to read ) - it's the first time ever in Polish elections - the PKW could have easily checked with PESEL data and addresses if such people do exist and live in Poland - they didn't bother this time - again for the first time in POlish election after 1989 -
what is more PKW did it against the instructions of the Supreme Court from some time ago which said PESEL and address data should be checked first (very few outside of state institutions should have PESEL data - I am not even sure it is legal to collect such data for other purposes than employment or insurance)
an excerpt of the article which includes an excerpt of the Supreme Court recent ruling:
Ruling on the merits, for the verification of signatures in support of NEC's citizens, the Supreme Court also noted the following:
"There is therefore need to enter personal data to the list so clearly that, without knowledge of the data resulting from the electoral register, you can clearly determine the name and address of the person giving support. Indeed, the situation is different than the reading of personal data solely on the basis of a text written by hand by the voter. It's not that the person retrieving handwritten entries on the list met solely on the basis of their name and address of the voter providing support, but here are that this person could see if there is no essential contradiction between the data resulting from the electoral register and the data indicated in the entry in the list of support. The primary purpose of verifying the data is in fact to determine whether the person who signed the list of support is in fact eligible voters whose Social Security number indicates it appears in the register of voters and thus reduce opportunities to commit fraud. To achieve this goal it is unnecessary to require full legibility of personal data submitted by the voter on the list of support, while it may limit the constitutional right of voting citizen who is not readable handwriting. Therefore, the Supreme Court considers that in assessing the accuracy of data entered on the list should be used in support of the opposite method, which is used by the NEC. "
btw the google translation is definitely not correct on many points - I don't know the English legalese - I hardly know Polish legalese actually - and my English is only rudimentarily advanced ;) so I never bothered to translate it myself
btw2 PKW aka NEC told the Supreme Court more or less to buzz off AFAIK - of coursed they used their legal terms, articles and points
yes I am - PKW has recently proven its malevolence - see casus KNP Kongres Nowej Prawicy and in the case of Marek Król and Joanna Kalata Senate candidates
How is life in your other parallel universe(:
you don't live in Poland but quite a few "PiS supporters" are here on this forum, so which are idiots ? Which are fanatics ? Tell us please.
I think that you have answered your own question by the following observation that you have made:
At least since the last Presidential elections. Actually, no one really want to win these elections that much... I won't be surprised If there will be big problems to set up any coalition...
Based on your observation which one of the above would you classify yourself as?
Let me see how the National Election Committee (PKW) works. Being a club of nine corrupted old judges they spend all their time sunbathing somewhere in Bahamas or Egypt, consuming uncountable umbrella drinks, playing sugar daddies (or mummies in one case) to the local beauties and they only occasionally come back to Poland - just to pick up their cheques. And they only wake up when the election date approaches - then they invent their various confusing, last minute rules - not published anywhere before - just to make the lives of the law abiding candidates to the Parliament and Senate as hellish as possible. Right? Hell, no - as you must have guessed!
My understanding is that they actually work permanently, being busy all the time, from one election to another - producing all those new rules, regulations, election procedures and improving on the old ones. And they publish them regularly - for any street Jack to be able to read and learn them in advance - giving the Jacks, political parties and appropriate institutions the chance to take some corrective actions if they find those rules unreasonable. Right?
But the Jacks in Poland - a country of ignorant egoists, with no respect for any authority whatsoever - including those elected by themselves - have no time for learning about all those mundane rules; they are too busy sunbathing somewhere in Spain or Baltic coast and playing sugar daddies to some local beauties. And when the election time comes and some candidates are being punished for being lazy, ignorant or late in applying some of those electoral procedures then they cry for vengeance to heaven for being unfairly treated. And they call the PKW biased and venomous. Then they suddenly remember about their other hated democratic institutions, such as Superior Court or Constitutional Tribunal, and try to use them to their advantage if possible.
Gumishu presented the Supreme Court decision regarding legibility of personal data entered on electoral registry - stating that that data is only an auxiliary tool for verification of the PESEL identification number of the electorate and not a primary tool for unique verification of the person, and hence the data does not have to be FULLY LEGIBLE, because otherwise this might limit the constitutional rights of electorate with illegible handwriting.
This is pretty stupid if you ask me: In any civilized country a person is asked to print in block their personal data, just to make it fully legible - as well as to be ready for character recognition software, in order to scan and properly process the person's handwriting. Yes, I did it countless times. And yes, the Supreme Court argument might be applicable in some countries with high percentage of illiterate people (USA for example - only partially kidding) but for God sake - this is Poland. But, if you do not know how to write your name you probably cannot write your PESEL as well, so you better bring with you a helper.
However - that's the Supreme Court decision, so I accept it.
On the other hand I can see why the PKW could be pissed off by this decision. Nine high PKW judges and their countless staff and clerks have worked countless hours to devise and introduce a system of procedures that supposed to prevent the election frauds. And after implementing those procedures to some 500 candidates to Senate there came a bunch of unruly candidates - some of them with high social or political profiles - who made the mess to the integrity of the current procedures via Supreme Court interference.
Look, I am not saying that the PKW works the best it can. I simply don't know it. There might be many places for improvement in the electoral procedures. So why don't you start making those improvements right after the elections?
But I do not believe that PKW is malevolent, and especially biased, whatsoever, in its actions. Bureaucratic? Perhaps. But sometimes such rigid frames are necessary. I was once left at the gate at the airport, with my Air France plane still standing in the plain view - but nothing I could do about it since the gates were already closed. Was I mad? Of course I was. It took me some time to be able to laugh about it.
I find it most fascinating that the German issue is going to play a role in Polish elections. Again.
In 2005, one of PiS propagandists declared that Tusk`s grandfather served in Wehrmacht during WW2. It tarnished PO`s leader`s reputation, and in result, he lost both presidential and parliament elections. PiS came to power.
I was afraid that this time PiS would spring up with another "grandfather." No.
Kaczyński only talks about Angela Merkel:
1. In his latest book he implies that her election for Chancellor wasn`t accidental. Besides, he claims that Germany is dangerous to Poland etc. 2. Asked by Newsweek journalists to eleborate on his vague statements, he said during an interview: She knows what I wanted to say. That is enough.
After a journalist`s question: Do you mean she was supported by Stasi? he answered: Let`s leave this topic.
On a press conference later on, when reporters tried to receive some kind of explanation, he asked one of them if he worked for Polish or German media.
Do you think it is going to help PiS or quite the opposite?
I hope that Poles realise that Germany is our important partner who has a significant say in European structures and may decide about many things, crucial for Poland. If Kaczyński becomes a PM, again Polish German relations will be frozen.
Isn`t it high time to drop that maniac, haunted by his little obsessions? :):):):)
Isn`t it high time to drop that maniac, haunted by his little obsessions? :):):):)
yeah, go and take him down - like opinion matters - you don't vote for him anyways so what is the use of this outrage
I hope that Poles realise that Germany is our important partner who has a significant say in European structures and may decide about many things, crucial for Poland. If Kaczyński becomes a PM, again Polish German relations will be frozen.
and what actually did it mean that the relations were frozen if they actually were frozen - and what does it mean when the relations are warm (presumably) during the PO government? - we're going on the collision course with Germany anyways (climate agreements that Tusk would like to renegotiate now or at least negotiate an interim )
What outrage do you mean? I am perfectly relaxed.. :):):)
In every third post of yours you mention climate agreements and their unfavourable outcome for Poland. You suggest it is Tusk and PO`s government fault.
You remind me of Kaczyński and his strategy of raising fearful emotions by rumour and understatement.
Read this article from 06. 2011
euobserver.com/7/32570
If anybody in the EU had any illusions about how stern Poland's resistance to the EU climate policy can get, a reality check came on June 22.
Poland opposed all the other EU countries to block the conclusions of the EU environmental ministers council. Were it not for Poland's opposition, the council would have adopted stricter carbon emission targets, endorsing the commission's 2050 Roadmap calling for a 40 percent cut in carbon emissions by 2030, a 60 percent cut by 2040 and a 80 percent cut by 2050, compared to 1990 levels.
The Polish energy industry has to be modernised anyway. So, what is your point abiut climate agreements?
The Polish energy market is currently at a crossroads. While almost 85 percent of electricity is produced from coal, two thirds of installed coal capacity is older than 30 years, and one third is almost 40 years old. According to the Public Consultancy Board for the National Programme of Emission Reduction, more than 7 GW of ageing generation capacity (almost 20 percent of total currently installed capacity) will have to be taken out of operation by 2015.
The Polish energy industry has to be modernised anyway. So, what is your point abiut climate agreements?
and you replace it with what? - wind farms? solar panels? geothermy? - in a matter of 3 years? - my guess is those presumed to be unsuitable for further operation in 2015 will still have to be kept running - because even building a gas fired power plant takes a couple of years - and I am not completely sure now it is economical in Polish condition (compared to coal generated power - not taking into consideration those idiotic CO2 limits - the whole 'global warming' issue is very dubious to me - lots of doubts and definite beneficiaries of the imposed policies
Poles deserve more - Respectable work and pay - by PiS.
I always consider it funny when PSL guys (farmer party) advertise in big cities like Krakow.
In communism, during elections, party bosses supplied shops/stalls with sausage and other scarce products to make people go out of home and vote. Hence, the term election sausage came into being. Today, sausage is replaced by toiletries. :):):):)
Put a stop to dirty politics!
My candidate - a Krakow conservative representative of libertarian PO, Jarosław Gowin, No 3.
Trustworthy
Among boring election billboards, there are also sych pearls. Shyt, I myst syy it.
I find that one quite funny, is this for a Krakow candidate?
Polish former foreign ministers write joint letter condemning statements made by Kaczynski regarding Angele Merkel.
Insinuations against the reasons for the selection of leaders , which is an important partner in the European Union , j are harmful to Polish - write foreign ministers in protest against the statements by Jaroslaw Kaczynski.
PIS candidate has been found out in falsely manipulating newspaper headlines in his election ad.
You can close your eyes to reality , but you can not close our eyes to the truth - says Wroclaw PiS candidate for deputy Jacek World in their electoral spots . In the same spots where permitted lies.
There is also one about a PIS candidate who is an admirer of Lukashanko.
All the good ones clearly flock to PIS, funny that.
I don't understand the last billboard pictured above. How and why is an exhibition of Turner's seascapes associated with an electoral candidate and/or political party?
October 7 / 8 - Attention! Attention! A very important special message from the Management of Museum of IV Republic to tens of millions of righteous Wolaks and all other patriots, which have in their hearts the good of the Motherland and desire of pulling Her away from the dirty paws of the occupation regime, temporarily managing the Russian-German condominium: to protect against obvious electoral frauds during incoming rigged parliamentary elections of the year 2011, it is essential to apply the following brilliant instruction of the outstanding Right Wolak, MP, and the heroic Resistance fighter, Jarosław Rusiecki of Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski:
"AFTER PLACING THE CROSS - we drag the white stearin vertically down the remaining lists (columns). THIS GUARANTEES NO POSSIBILITY OF ADDING ANY MARK!!!!! The oily paper will not accept any writing medium."
=hague1cmaeron]I find that one quite funny, is this for a Krakow candidate?
Nope, the guy is from Tarnów. My family member who lives there brought me that detergent.
=Des Essientes]I don't understand the last billboard pictured above. How and why is an exhibition of Turner's seascapes associated with an electoral candidate and/or political party?
It is simple. The elements play a significant role during elections in Poland. When it is rainy, only the most determined go.
My family and me are like that. We will go to vote, even if Krakow is struck with freak hurricane called Putin and a massive earthquake called Katusha.
=MyMom]American Polonia has already started voting
Yes, I was surprised to find out that American time zone is ahead of ours. I thought it was the opposite.
I live here in Poznan and find it frustrating that no one even wants to talk about the election. The PO will win going away as there is no real alternative and the markets have deemed them to be the right choice, a vote for stability. Of course in this Orwellian world, stability means market servility which will only bring the exact opposite. I'm still new here so I can't post real links, but the rest of my thoughts for today's election are on my blog - theendisalwaysnear.blogspot.com/2011/10/polish-political-predictabilit y.html
one white set of A4: 8 pages. one page of yellow A4.
one cross for each set.
i selected one from list seven (white pages)
and top of the list (yellow page)
The register of household names, for my area, showed that three or four people got there before me. this means that so far turn out is normal and low for this time of day.
you need more time to process the American votes - and people want to know what is the outcome right after the election - that's way the voting is held earlier in far away places (add the time difference factor - the polls there should be open more or less as long as in Poland herself - and it's obvious you have to let them vote a day before the voting day in Poland)
I live here in Poznan and find it frustrating that no one even wants to talk about the election.
Well, no - people aren't interested in "post-Orwellian nightmare dystophia political situations involving our masters in Brussels" - the only ones that like such subjects tend not to speak English.
Does it mean the turnup is going to be over 60%?
I don't think so, but it seems that there's a lot of people around - I had a look in the local polling station at 8pm and it was very very busy.
Also saw the obligatory PiS posters located right outside the local church, but not on their land. Thankfully, no other party saw fit to do such a thing.
