Palikot - too liberal/modern for Poland?

He brought forward some very radical ideas. What are your opinions about his programme? A clear division between state and church, no state funding of churches, funding of IVF, free access to anticonception, etc ... etc ...

Palikot is a retard. I cannot be bothered to actually listen to him anymore but I am going to assume that everything he spawns is retarded by definition.

Why do you consider him a retard, Kondzior? Why don't you like him? Please give us some reasons.

The Church-bashing and librertine persmissivism (comdomisign youngsters, abortion at whim, etc.) are a blueprint for moral decay, but even Hitler built the VW and modern motorways and had one of Europe's best health insurance systems. So too Palikot has some good ideas including:

-- downsizing the Sejm from 460 to 300 deputies
-- one-mandate voting (voting for candidates rather than parties)
-- a maximum of two 4-year terms in offcie for MPs
-- no subsidising of political parties.
Abolition of the Senate does not seem wise as this body corrects or fine-tunes legislation. Maybe downsizing it to 50 (from the current 100) seats would be OK.

What does it mean, 'a clear division of church and state', Stu? For example, I saw churches in classrooms in a gimnazjum school here and I thought they fit in very well. What delineation do you envisage?

No state funding of churches? Do other countries do this?

On the IVF point, he's onto sth good with that.

So companies like Durex go out of business? ;)

Are you kidding me? Do you know any of his antics? He is the reason I can't think of PO seriously any longer. I mean, if they tolerate such an err.. individal... for so long, how can I respect them.

He does come across as an idiot, that's for sure. A very rich idiot! How people like that can earn a fortune is beyond me. Another of PO's band of fools.

Yeah, he is too modern for this planet, send him on the moon!

Palikot's got an MA in philosophy from Warsaw Univ. but was earning pennies as a teaching assistant at the Philosophy Faculty. He apparently had an inborn knack for business, sensed a market for wooden goods palettes in great demand in Germany), then moved to the wine and vodka business and soon became a millionaire. He even briefly bankroleld the Catholic weekly Ozon. One thing that can be said for him (all his clowning aside), he has helped Poland's demographics by fathering 4 children. It took him two wives to do so but....

With his madcap antics he has also provided some comic relief to Poland's somewhat dour and pompous Polish politiclal scene.

Yeah, I realise he cannot be actually stupid if he got so high. But since his monkeying around is more or less deliberate, so worse for him. He is not a primitive fool, he knows better and still behaves like that. The more reason to despise him.

As for the changes Polonius3 outlined, aren't them mostly cosmetic? Aside from "not subsiding of political parties". I can agree with that, but I also know no polititan will vote for it. I guess Palikot knows it too, otherwise he would have not proposed that.

I don't know whether Palikot is an atheist or not, but in Greece there has been full secularism for as long as I can remember, and the church is not funded by the government. Yet, Greece is as religious as Poland and the church has very much money. I think more than the government now with the recession...lol.

he is another populist not a messiah of modernism. Of course I'm against funding churches (actually I have no idea they are funded by state... are you sure?). I support secular state, free access is not a good idea as the contraception is partly funded by state and those cheapest refunded contra pills are the oldest generation of pills which are the most dangerous and shouldn't be perscribed to young girls (I mean that it could drive corruption even more as already now is quite huge).


because he makes a clown of himself. I like for instance seriouse people in politics not media showmen.

lol I just read his online bio:

"A few days later on 24 April 2007, he presented a gun and a few dildos at a press conference called to discuss the case of some police officers from Lublin, accused of rape. He explained that the objects were in his opinion modern symbols of law and justice in Poland, as well as representing Lublin's police."

yea, that wouldn't gain my trust as this guy running on office...what is he 12?

He is not an idiot. He is just a clown who tries his original way to gain popularity. Seanus who you support from polish goverment? I'm just curious

I said he comes across that way, Zeti. You know, probably Napieralski as he seems to be the most reasonable of candidates.

Sounds like a damned good way to point out how useless the police were - like many of his actions, they may seem childish, but everyone talks about them. And - if people are talking about the issues, then he's done his job.


Indirectly, they are - such as the Catholic Church not paying the going rate to rent classrooms in schools, funding to keep existing buildings maintained (whereas most owners would have to keep it maintained or else), massive transfers of property/land to the Church and more.

Really, Palikot is simply a modern day social democrat without Communist baggage.

What are you talking about ? There is only one grand from government - to maintain a historical buildings- churches but if you the owner of a real historical building you can apply for the same grand!


Hey it not USA! A different circumstances !

And does anyone really believe that the Church isn't getting preferential treatment when it comes to these grants? Everyone knows that the separation of church and state in Poland is constitutionally guaranteed, yet not enforced in practice.

As far as I recall, there are other subsidies too, such as not paying VAT on building supplies.


If they want to use the classrooms, they should pay exactly the same rent as I, or anyone else does. Fair is fair :)

He is very intelligent but not too consequent. He should have a good plan for his meaning in politics.
I didn't know he was a philosopher.
Sometimes his performances on TV look like "art for art" unfortunately.
It can be a problem for him if he is planning to be somebody who has aspirations of being important and respectful.

Quite right, as historical churches are the national treasure !


they don't need to use classroom as during commie regime they built their own !
The idea is to have religion at school !
gee

The roughly $10 billion dollars worth of real estate is what the commie regime stole from the Church. Since the restoration of private ownership, those confiscated lands and buildings have been returned and, where that was impossible (war. damage, demoliton, building over the original sites), financial compensation has been provided. Now Palikot is using that sum to suggest the state is bankrolling the Church.

In a sense it is. They get money from any taxpayer who doesn't opt out, and if you opt out, that proportion of your tax money goes on building that tasteless monstrosity on ul. Powsinska, also a religious thing.

Powsińska? Please explain.

The Swiatynia Opatrznosci/Temple of Providence

he is a fake guy who has found a political niche - quite cynical - and then he's also a crook - had hidden his capital somewhere in the Dutch Antilles not to share it with his wife after divorce - there are also some allegations he bought Polmos Lublin (a state owned company before) with the money he got from... Polmos Lublin (in a sense the essence of Polish 'transformations" )

btw I am very much against any subsidising of any church by the state - and at the moment the state is funding religious 'education' in the public schools - there shouldn't be any religious 'education' in public schools in my view - also the returning of Catholic church real estate is quite controversial to me - there have been quite shady instances - shouldn't churches be funded by the believers?

None of the above seem like bad ideas to me.


At a whim? Surely a big exaggeration. No country has this.

It doesn't matter if he is liberal/modern/conservative because he is just lazy comedian...

He had his chance to prove his effectiveness as a politician when he headed parliamentary commission "Friendly Government". But instead of reducing contradictions and ineffectivenes of Polish bureaucracy he preffered to make shows for journalists. He get bored fast with his precious commission and serious work and prefered a role of a clown, maybe clever but still a clown.

So, even if personally I agree that church is meddling to much in Poland, even if I'm pro "In vitro" then mister Palikot can kiss my a** and f** o**, because I know that the only thing he can do is talking, talking and talking with vibrator in his hand.

Yeah right. Ta pizda from Lublin was a snitch for SB and there are his handwritten loyalty notes to prove it. How he made his money, you can read in tomorrow's issue of Gazeta Polska.

This imbecile is in the Lepper league.

Usual nonsense - he supports liberalising the law, so in the eyes of our dear Catholic-Socialists, he's immediately a baby murderer because they're too thick in the head to have a rational debate.


Ah, Gazeta Polska, that well known impartial source of journalistic integrity which isn't linked at all to Kaczynski and friends. Try using a more...credible source next time, huh?

Anyway, we all know about these documents and their integrity - ie, they have none at all. Then again, Jaroslaw Kaczynski knows nothing about signing documents for his freedom, because he wasn't there - just like the rest of the loudmouth doomsayers.

I hope you don't mind me saying so, but I haven't heard anything about abortion at whim. I should add I hear everything from second hand from my wife (who has to translate some of the news items, but I am pretty sure she doesn't lie to me ... ;). And saying that there should be a division between church and state, doesn't necessarily sound like church bashing to me.

I have to agree with you, though, about the abolition of the Senate. I think there should be two bodies that have a look at passing a bill. If a government wants to pass a bill and has a majority in the Lower Chamber (which it will always have), then there is no second (somewhat more independent body) that has another look.

I have to admit that I don't exactly know how it works in Poland, but for example in the Netherlands the Senate is chosen from the States-Provincial, a kind of provincial parliament and legislative assembly in each province of the Netherlands. It is directly elected every four years and has the responsibility for matters of sub-national or regional importance. From its members the Senate is indirectly chosen. So in a way it kind of makes it independent from the government