Poland needs a left wing govt.

A troubled place. I think there are still riots nowadays, sometimes?

Trouble is everywhere.. Fasten your belts, economy crisis will continue till everywhere including West is in trouble. It doesn't matter for Poland now whether they have left or right wing. Before Poland, West will change.

Can ANYONE, please explain to me what the first sentence has to do with the second?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! If the Russians had known what socialism was, they could have closed down their nuclear reactors ... ?!?!

I mean, really! Even after a complete bottle of port I make more sense.

You must try harder Stu....here....have some support:

It's pretty simple Stu. Let me try to simplify it for you.

...Russia is east of Ukraine and Belarus yet Poland is east of Germany so Japan has nuclear reactors yet more people died under communism than nazism and therefore Poland needs nuclear reactors unless Sweden wants them too but they already have them and they try socialism there as well yet they said they'd close them but are not so they lie and prozac will save the world although I love Chinese food I am I right, am I? you are right too, we are all right and some are left but those in the middle are lost yet they're right too unless they're wrong because if they're we're all lost and we are doomed so it's all pointless, where's my gun??

See? How hard was it?

Ahaaaaaaaa ... yes, skysoulmate. Now it makes sense! I see ... Thank you very much for your explanation, cause I really truly didn't get it the first time.

But I thought that Ukraine and Belarus are west of Russia and Germany west of Poland, therefore ..... ehh ... nevermind ...

Yes, but the Coriolis Force combined with the computer-chip Moore's Law predicate the fatal tilt of socialism. Therefore the movie Battle L.A. will be a flop to the critics and a blockbuster to the viewers, ...and nuclear reactor makers. Easy as American Pie 2 and fatal as Naked Gun 33 1/3. Peace Out.

Same here.

:S


I think all of us would be better off with a fifty-fifty mentality. It's not impossible to combine capitalism with socialism, but of course those who have it all wish to keep everything for themselves, so they will protest this way of thinking until they're blue in the face, but it's not impossible to achieve quality of life for all citizens.

Differences are good, because these differences motivate and drive people to be all that they can be, but the way I see it, these differences are becoming way too huge. I mean, a lowly production worker is also responsible for generating the profits a factory makes, and a lowly office worker is also responsible for generating the profits a company makes. Of course it's rubbish to pay everyone the same, but really there's something wrong when one person earns millions a year, while the other can't pay his ******* bills anymore, and that's while working! In my country, a lot of people who work for minimum wage actually make *less* than some people who are on wellfare. (They call them the working poor.)

Now, I don't care on which side of the political spectrum you think you are, and I don't care about how many theories you have, and I don't care about how many ways you know to twist my words into something I didn't say. All I want to hear from people is that it isn't right to earn less than someone who's on wellfare when you're working, simply because it isn't. (I don't want to be right, and I don't want you to be wrong, I just want someone who actually matters to acknowledge the obvious and *do* something about it!) And no, the solution *isn't* to lower benefits to straighten things out, because then you're not doing anything for anyone else except for the people who *already* earn more than enough to live a good life.

P.S. Yes, I *am* studying, yes, I *am* working, yes, I *am* doing something about it, and yes, you should totally shut the **** up if you plan to bring personal bullshit into this discussion when it's clear for all to see you have no real arguments to justify excessive greed.

;)

Stick to the facts, thank you!

In each year after 1989 Poland was "blessed" with bigger taxes, new taxes, extended social welfare, extended bureaucracy, new kinds of concessions and bigger public debt - Maybe Poland should import some left wing politicans and "experts" from Hungary or Greece to fix that?

Poland need strong and true right wing goverment, not another cathosocialist from PiS or pseudoliberals from PO.

Or none of the above. The only potentially good Polish government we will see is the one created in maybe 30 years' time by the 25-30-year-olds of today, the people who can see the world in colours not influenced in any way by the pre-1989 worldview. The prevalence of that in both parliament and local government is still, 20 years on, all too apparent.

Unless they sound like Qaay.

;)

Do you think that they thinking is not influenced ? It amusing like people put they hopes on the future generations, it means they have no idea how to solve present problems themselves.

Of course. But to a lesser degree by the modes of thinking set down under the old order. The younger generation here is for the most part utterly disenfranchised by its political elite. Some of that will rub off - new ideas will emerge from the frustration (if they don't take to the streets first).


It's not about hope. It's an observation - accurate, I think - that there is not the political will on any side of the spectrum in present-day PL to tackle key issues head on. Still way too many old scores are being settled. Also, the right way to tackle those issues is, unfortunately, the wrong way to go about winning the next election. And it's the posturing in preparation for the latter that dominates the political stage. Sadly, amusement - unless schadenfreude is your thing - isn't quite what we're looking for here.

yeah - there is some strange kind of brainwashing among many Polish youth that the greed of capitalists is good - now see yourself what is the price of that greed in terms of how much a kilogramme of plain sugar costs in Poland even in comparison to Germany - it is all a matter of someone (some circles) buying out sugar and then selling it for huuuuge profit - you just need to have some cash spare, don't you

Because there is powerful minority not interested in tackling key issue as long as they can wallow in their own mud.

well, maybe

anyway, i am sure that i know what Poland need exactly. But, i won`t tell you. i have my right to speak or not to speak and i decided not to speak, no matter that some of you maybe want me to speak, so i won`t speak

Well according to the latest polls Grzegorz Napieralski, the leader of the Democratic Left Alliance is the most trusted politician in Poland so hopefully a left wing goverment with sensible social policies is not far off. :)

Why not a left wing government? Maybe Poland can then bring one million refugees/immigrants from 3rd world countries, and only THEN, can Poland become a successful 1st world/Western country, just like their Western European counterparts, am I right?

Poles no longer understand what left wing and right wing mean. At least what they mean outside of Poland. Current ruling party is distinctly nationalist, but on many occasions it declares will to give away money. Anyone who is not as far right as them is declared a fringe leftist by PiS, nationalists and often Church.

To a typical Pole, "left wing" = Communism, end of story.

I think a worthy left-wing party is shaping up. Partia Razem is something completely new and they take more inspiration from Scandinavian socialism than the Soviet one.

Partia Razem failed to get into Sejm, but Adrian Zandberg, one of its 9 leaders* made a good impression on the last public debate. Partia Razem was getting 1% results in polls before it, but around 3.9% after the debate.

Another thing worth noting - the party has no connection to the old leftist parties like SLD. In fact, it's sometimes blamed for no left in current Sejm, because Razem refused to ally with Zjednoczona Lewica. Last time I checked, there's a 5 percent treshold for a new party, but 8 percent if it's a coalition (like Zjednoczona Lewica, but looking at their list of canditates 70 percent of them was SLD)

Here's a good interview with Adrian Zandberg in Polish Radio (in english). He's a good, pragmatic speaker.
youtube.com/watch?v=_HFRANNUb4w#t=240

We'll see in 4 years. The party's program is one of the few which doesn't promise the sky and the stars - everything adds up. They also treat voters with respect and use concrete arguments in debate instead of slogans - that's why they made a splash on the debate. While its program is the opposite than the party I voted for, I'd much rather have .Nowoczesna and Razem arguing over merit in Sejm than PO and PiS exchanging slogans.

* The party doesn't have a single leader in order to stay true to socialist spirit. I don't know about its other leaders, but Zandberg makes a point that he travels by public transport, because a politician shouldn't live a completely different life than the people he's trying to represent.

ROTFL


Because main stream media started claiming that Zandberg won the debate which is not truth.


But they promise 70% tax, they are a joke.

Like youtube ? If you count youtube videos with "partia razem" (with quotes), you'll notice a great surge of popularity since around the debate. 3/4 of videos are 1 month old or newer.


70% tax for people earning above 500,000 PLN per year (41,666 per month). They can afford that. And only excess money is taxed. People earning 5000-6000 would have the same tax as now. Those below would pay lower taxes, and the poorest (up to 2x subsistence wage) would pay no tax. Taxes would only be higher for the wealthiest 10% of population.

But don't take my word for it, use their online calculator to see how much you would get under their tax system. Click on the dotted line and type.

partiarazem.pl/kalkulator/

Correction, 75% for those above 500,000 PLN / year.