Poland's Nationalists hold congress

23 Jun 2013 / #91

You're manipulating the numbers which are not the same.

Shall we ask the PKW, shall we? In the election in 2011, we saw :

wybory2011.pkw.gov.pl/wsw/pl/000000.html

Liczba wyborców: 30 762 931

Number of voters : 30,762,931.

That means that to achieve the 5% threshold required for parliamentary representation, you need 1,538,147 votes from the eligible electorate. But of course, turnout is never 100% - so going by the 2011 election :

wybory2011.pkw.gov.pl/att/pl/000000.html#tabs-1

Liczba kart ważnych: 15 050 027

Number of votes : 15,050,027. 5% of this would be 752501 votes.

Now, as you say, they got 20,000 on the streets. That's what, around 2.5% of the number needed to gain parliamentary representation?

Haha.

pakol - | 20

23 Jun 2013 / #92

Are you trying to convince us that only people marching in parades vote in elections? LOL :)
Did all these million voting last time ever do that? I can hardly believe it.
Millions of Poles in the streets?

That is what I call your MANIPULATION, mate.

jon357 73 | 22924

23 Jun 2013 / #93

By a rapidly growing number of the youngs, of course.

That tells us nothing. A bit like saying 'some think'. And since you tried to pretend that up to 100,000 attended that silly riot, and that it was 'nice' and 'not dangerous' despite all the injuries, ripped up paving slabs and burnt vehicles we can't really rely on your uncorroborated word, can we?

delphiandomine 86 | 17823

23 Jun 2013 / #94

Are you trying to convince us that only people marching in parades vote in elections?

I'm trying to tell you that if they can only muster 20,000 on a public holiday, then it seems unlikely that they'll do well in elections.

As was already seen in previous years, they can't stop fighting among themselves too. Remember, there's no way you're going to bind (for instance) Lech Poznan supporters with Legia Warszawa supporters, hence the movement is doomed to fail.

Anyone interested in what really went on would be advised to read this :
vice.com/en_uk/read/polish-independence-day

Attacking photographers with hammers, indeed!

pakol - | 20

23 Jun 2013 / #95

Jon357, it's your choice if you believe it or not. But it's happening no matter what you think of it. As I stated before, the media already learned the lesson.

They can see them now and commentators and politicians, as well. They are a serious force.

delphiandomine 86 | 17823

23 Jun 2013 / #96

They are a serious force.

If they were a serious force, why was Jaroslaw Kaczynski very careful to not support them last time round?

jon357 73 | 22924

23 Jun 2013 / #97

Jon357, it's your choice if you believe it or not

I believe what I saw with my eyes and which was also pretty well covered by photo reportage. You've been caught out lying in this thread already, so yes - I will choose sensibly what to believe.

pakol - | 20

23 Jun 2013 / #98

pakol: They are a serious force.

If they were a serious force, why was Jaroslaw Kaczynski very careful to not support them last time round?

I don't know what "last time" means?
Kaczynski's party treats them very seriously. There have been many atacks on them from his party side. But you probably don't read their papers and websites, do you?

They understand very well that the Movement seek no alliance with PiS and can take a good number of votes from them.

Grandmaster - | 8

23 Jun 2013 / #99

If they were a serious force, why was Jaroslaw Kaczynski very careful to not support them last time round?

Because the National Movement aims for the same electorate that Law and Justice does, if National Movement gets support it will come from parts of L&J electorate.

That said there is an interesting social operation enacted by government affiliated media such as TVN, TVP and Onet. They put quite a bit of attention to the Nationalist Movement in hopes that it will weaken PiS come elections, this is done due to the fact that Civic Platform is losing a lot of support in the nation due to corruption and general mismanagement of the country.

There are two main issues with RN (Nationalists) - one is they have no real concept of what do to or how to act after they grab power, the other is that they're speaking in a voice that's at least 20 years too late, their rhetoric does not reach the general populace nor the younger people despite their bombastic claims, they're an old idea attempting a comeback and being very late for the party indeed.

pakol - | 20

23 Jun 2013 / #100

youtube.com/watch?v=GWwE4ER9u94

The organisers accused the police of provoking the people. The case is in the court now. As for now the Independence March Association is considered to be "an injured party".

The question who is guilty is opened.

wpolityce.pl/wydarzenia/54099-policjant-kopal-w-twarz-na-marszu-niepodleglosci-sad-wyrzucenie-ze-sluzby-i-wiezienie-w-zawieszeniu

As for the previous event, a police officer found guilty

Grandmaster - | 8

23 Jun 2013 / #101

I daresay both parties are to blame and Nationalists are veeeery happy that police provoked them, now they can trumpet it all over their circles.

p3undone 7 | 1098

23 Jun 2013 / #102

Yeah the police all over are notorious for provocating events as these.

delphiandomine 86 | 17823

23 Jun 2013 / #103

In all fairness, the "nationalists" came to fight and the police were ready for them. You can see in the Vice article that the police were not going to **** around.

p3undone 7 | 1098

23 Jun 2013 / #104

delphiandomine, I hear you,but they should wait until something occurs,not instigate,if that is the case.Especially when you're talking about large amounts of people.

jon357 73 | 22924

23 Jun 2013 / #105

It's not the case. The whole thing was a headache for the police.

delphiandomine 86 | 17823

23 Jun 2013 / #106

I hear you,but they should wait until something occurs,not instigate,if that is the case.

It's actually much more complicated, because there are almost certainly hooligans that went to Warsaw with the sole reason of smashing up Warsaw. Then you've got photographers being attacked and having to hide from the "nationalists" for fear of having their equipment destroyed - and add to it a police force that isn't known for being particularly good in these situations and for being armed to the teeth.

I suspect that we're going to see a particularly violent march in 2013.

sobieski 106 | 2111

23 Jun 2013 / #107

There are two main issues with RN

They are plain nazis

pakol - | 20

23 Jun 2013 / #108

Grandmaster: There are two main issues with RN
They are plain nazis

Nazis, who was not called a nazi?
Even a current lib-dem prime minister Tusk and former president Walesa

After 1989. "Fascists" were, among others, Lech Walesa, Donald Tusk and Kazimierz Marcinkiewicz. Today this term sticks to the President and his party PiS

- If the chief second force in the country without embarrassment refers to the idea of Carl Schmitt, the Nazi teacher if raises the slogan "Polish, wake up", literally modeled on Hitler's slogan "Deutschland, erwache" (Germany), wake up, if the formula Nazis organizes fackelzugs, torchlight descents, whether these analogies may not raise concern? The leader leads the party organized on strictly fascist manner, with full power, concentrated in only one hand - recently alerted the honorary chairman of the Association of Polish Journalists Stefan Bratkowski.
In his opinion, "the nascent fascism", that Jaroslaw Kaczynski and PiS, you need to "obstruct the path".
With who Walesa is associated
Kaczynski is the first Polish politician after 1989., who was accused of fascism. The list is long, and one of the characters, which it opens, is Lech Walesa. Such accusations were already in the presidential campaign of 1990. One of Walesa rally in Krakow was disturbed by the Anarchist Federation activists shouting "Down with fascism".

Walesa frequented "fascist" even after his victory. When half a year later met with his followers in the church of St.. Brigid in Gdansk, Adam Michnik is it associated the favor Mussolini from the balcony. "It smells corporationism, which built its power Mussolini, Salazar, Franco, and a few dictators in South America" - commented later Wiktor Osiatyński.

Scary cowboy
Leading "fascist" 90s was, however, no politician, but a showman - Wojciech Cejrowski. "Brown Cowboy Republic" - a title given to "Gazeta Wyborcza" accusatory article on the television program "WC Kwadrans".

Calling a nazi is so popular that nowadays means nothing.
You can start reading on wikipedia and compare "nazism" and "National Democracy" - there are very few similarities.

Grandmaster - | 8

23 Jun 2013 / #109

They are plain nazis

You're an uneducated idiot or a bare-footed troll. Comparing polish nationalist party to people who gassed an equivalent of a small nation measured in women and children is tasteless and plain wrong.

delphiandomine 86 | 17823

23 Jun 2013 / #110

Except, sadly, those fools have openly talked about gassing people too.

Comparisons with Nazism are valid.

pakol - | 20

23 Jun 2013 / #111

If so, then Palikot is a Nazi, too
He wants to shoot and skin !!! his enemies

The Movement's leader crushes a socialist MP who defends a professor - former Soviet and communist Polish death secret police forces' officer

jon357 73 | 22924

25 Jun 2013 / #112

Pseudopatroots, football hooligans and losers all.

pakol - | 20

25 Jun 2013 / #113

But not a red totalitarian murderer? Are you Bauman's fan?
Where were "true" patriots? Why only nationalists acted against this pathetic event?

jon357 73 | 22924

26 Jun 2013 / #114

As I say, pseudopatriots and thugs. A shameful display.

a red totalitarian murderer

Given that he was investigated by the IPN during the duck years and nothing was found, no charges brought, I'd be very careful about using phrases like that. For accusing someone of murder without a court verdict of murder, you could well find yourself paying for the rest of your miserable life.

Are you Bauman's fan?

He is a kind gentle person of 96.

OP Polonius3 980 | 12275

26 Jun 2013 / #115

pakol
Great poster! The EU-PC crowd think they are so forward-looking and progressive that they cannot see all the markigns of a dictatorship trying to reshape Europe in the image of the Brussels bureuacracy. Their censorship does not differ that much from what Comrade Stalin and Herr Hitler had imposed. They still have no gas chambers but can already have unsubmissive people sacked, force charitable institutions to close down and effectively blackball the non-subservient.

Hats off to the Irish, UK and Poland for having the guts to demand opt-outs from the Brussels 'bible of dictates':
-- The Irish cannot be forced to participate in any future EU military force;
-- The UK will no tbend to EU pressure re labour laws and other matters;
-- And Poland remains sovereign in the realm of family legislation and cannot be forced to accept all the trendy PC -deviations.
Hopefully that whole top-heavy Eurocracy will collpase -- the sooner the better!

Grzegorz_ 51 | 6138

26 Jun 2013 / #116

He is a kind gentle person of 96.

As much as many ex-SS guys.

jon357 73 | 22924

26 Jun 2013 / #117

I don't thnk he's ever been accused of that, nor has he been accused of any criminal acts except by types who rarely care what they say.

OP Polonius3 980 | 12275

26 Jun 2013 / #118

I don't thnk he's ever been accused of that, nor has he been accused of any criminal acts

Yes, because allegedly free, Magdalenka-deal Poland was never able to carry out proper de-communisation. Bauman was a high-placed commie operative in a unit known for persecuting AK freedom-fighters. But in London he would have been out of the reach of the Polish justice system just like Michnik's brother, a fugitive destkop murderer hiding in Sweden.

Age has nothing to do with it. In recent years elderly former Nazi camp guards have been put on trial after all these years, but there is one major difference. They were only Ukrainians, and therefore not ethnically correct.

jon357 73 | 22924

26 Jun 2013 / #119

A rabid comment, but as usual somewhat divorced from reality. As I said earlier, the IPN back during the ducks' regime investigated and found nothing. Zero. Nada. An innocent man.

Nile 1 | 154

26 Jun 2013 / #120

jon357 - wrote "Zero. Nada. An innocent man"
Possible but it is equally possible they haven't found any evidence against him.
Not to be confused with guilelessness.