Multi-culti (in Poland) -- roadmap to disaster?

I second that, For4

Well,if you can't tolarate your hosts beliefs or customs you should **** off back where you came from.
Few years ago I had a gf from GA one of the so called bible belt states,we were watvching TV ,I was fliping channels and stopped for a second on some TV preacher,now,I think these guys are totally nuts and I said that.She got very angry and told me that this is very serious and important to GA people and to never make a comment like this if I ever go with her to GA.

Anticipating objections and respecting reasonable sensitivities is important. While I may have agreed or not with JPII, for example, it was not for me to openly voice them. Some things just don't need to be said.

As for MC in Poland, I really believe that trouble will only arise when Poles start losing jobs with no tangible benefit to their economy.

Again what I feel you're overlooking is the fact that Poles are not some homogeneous mass of goop whereby what one person does dictates the formula for all the rest.

So 2 million Poles went to work in another E.U. state, that should in no way mean that the remaining 37 million have to allow anyone to come waltzing in and stay for whatever reason.

The second element that leads me to disagree with you is that you seem to feel that what happens within the E.U. must somehow extend beyond that. The politicians of England and Ireland, for whatever reasons, decided not to restrict worker rights from new member states. When Poles start heading off to India, Pakistan, Indonesia and other 3rd world countries then you'll have a point but that isn't the case right now.

*edit* My Lovely has arrived- I must retire.

For4, provided the criteria are satisfied, they couldn't stop other EU members from entering. If the reason is in compliance with EU Law, where's the problem?

Aren't you Canadian?If so you have no say whatsoever about Poland's immigration policies.NONE.


Exactly,just like I must (which I don't have a problem with) abide by American society.

American society allows for more leeway, grubas. It's a different model entirely. What is the predominant foreign group in Poland, grubas?

I don't know,what is it?

Ethnic Germans, but they're not really 'foreign'.

Otherwise, probably Ukrainians. But are they really foreign?

yes I am. I also have permanent residency status and when this expires I am going for full citizenship. My kids have dual as does my husband. So, I actually do have the right to comment.

perhaps you should stop watching fox news and actually educate yourself on what you hate so much that way you don't look like such an idiot.

Just curious, is the Polish "permanent" different from the English "permanent"? how can it expire?

The certificate expires, but the residency itself doesn't - at least, that's how I understand it.

No difference.


No offence but you are Canadian and you can comment all you want but no real Polish person (like me) will ever treat your comments about Polish affairs seriously.

No offence, but the vast majority of Poles in Poland think that a Polish guy who doesn't pay taxes in Poland and who doesn't live here doesn't really deserve any sort of say.

When you pay taxes here, perhaps we'll listen. Until then, people like "pip" will enjoy far more influence.

As long as they first Polish it don't matter.One of my grandmothers was ethnic German and I am Polish.Same for Ukies.

I bet I have to take all the same fekin documents back again when it expires.

I thought we already established that I paid tax in Poland last Friday.

the document expires, it is a huge hassle and complete total waste of time- not to mention a pain in the ass.

I also pay taxes here as I own my own business. I have a say- I am not Polish- I will never be, but I am cool with that.

so if you paid taxes last friday- you have an income in Poland and one in the U.S? You are exactly my point. The day you move back to Poland and actually live here- is the day you have a right to criticize me- at this moment you have been trumped.

just for clarification. Muslims in Poland are a small population. Muslims in U.S are large.
Poland is a country of one culture. U.S has every culture.
Poland doesn't need to accomodate muslims because they assimilate here. They don't in the U.S because the gov't says they don't have to.

do yourself a favour and stop reading and watching fox news. It is nothing more than propoganda bullshit created by the right wing.

Nonsense. Its not about money its about the heart but clearly you sold your soul to currency.

That's my point, there shouldn't be one if we are comparing one E.U. nationality's mobility within the Union with another one's. Pip, while making a fair point in one respect, is over-reaching when it comes to Poles and their culture. They have every right to keep it mono-cultural. Multiculturalism only works when minority cultures represent less than 1/1000. As long as there aren't communities of East Asians, Middle Easterners or Africans then things will go swimmingly. When there are enough of them in the same city, then they begin to all live in the same neighborhood (or rather "we" as it's the most instinctive thing to do), thereby they make increasingly less effort to assimilate. In fact they make a concerted effort to stand apart. End results right now are increasingly fragmented communities and less and less social cohesion.

People can wax on all they want about the benefits of multiculturalism but the detriments are more pronounced and long lasting.

Anyhow, I've yet to hear or read why it is anything other than retarded for a nation with as many unemployed as there are here to welcome in the 3rd world. If things go sour in the UK and Ireland then, you can expect another million or so back in Poland. The E.U. money being spent on the wages for infrastructure repair sure as hell should be spent on Polish labour or E.U. nationals labour.

Personally, I don't think multiculturalism works in European countries. They are expected to adapt to the host nations way of life. One only has to look to Germany and the Turkish guest workers to see how this has worked. However, that said, it really pisses me off when Poles immigrate to another country, keep ties to Poland and then are up in arms when immigrants move to Poland.

There are enough Vietnamese living in Poland that there is now a Lot flight to Hanoi twice a week. My daughters best friend is Vietnamese born in Poland. They are not sucking the system. They own their own business- enough so that they have two kids in private school. They speak the language- but because of the obvious physical differences they will never be accepted as Poles. They don't live in a "vietnamese ghetto" - by this I mean an area with many Vietnamese.

Vietnamese have not come to Poland to steal jobs from the locals- they work hard, educate themselves, learn the language and contribute to society.
I am more concerned how Walmart is going to destroy Poland when it opens its doors here.

Good points. The Vietnamese have an economy on the rise, I have yet to hear about how the Vietnamese or Koreans have really brought down the neighborhood. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but if it does then it's a rarity. Let's be honest here, it is the Pakistani and Turkish from Asia and, if there are enough of them, almost any ethnicity from Africa that bring problems to a host nation. The Chinese and Indians are simply so numerous that it is hard not to imagine there being some global consequences down the road.

I do wonder what the attraction is for a Vietnamese to come to Poland. I hear the economy there is prospering but that's hearsay until I go there and see it for myself, is the economy here that much better or are they just adventurers? Are there an equal number of Poles who go there? Is Poland seen as a gateway into the E.U? If so, by whom?

There have always been extensive ties between the Vietnamese and the Poles and Czechs. The economy is booming, but it's all relative. 20% yearly salary increases on 100 euro a month will still take a while to close in on Polish wages of a 800 a month with 5-10% growth.

"Always?"

I think you are quite accurate, unfortunately. However- it is not standard. Most want to do well in their host country- but there will always be the exception that brings down the whole group.

They came over during PRL times to study and work.

So what does that mean though? They want to do well- so does everyone. How they're willing to "do well" is another question entirely and, imo, it is the crux of the matter.

Again, everyone is willing to assimilate when they have to. When people who ethnically identify with one another can establish neighborhoods in a foreign country, that is when the whole things starts to take its headlong turn for the worst as there is less and less impetus to assimilate. E.g. London; Paris; any sizable German city.

I mean the basics. I am assuming that many that want to immigrate from countries in Africa or other 3rd world countries- would like to be able to work, live in a nice house, have the opportunity to go to school and raise their families without having to worry that they might get killed.

I know when people immigrate to Canada from these countries- they are helped out- language school, gov't housing- things of this nature with the hopes of them being able to function in society.

I remember a few years ago when Poland and Czech no longer required a visa to get into Canada there was a big problem because many Gypsies immigrated--and because of their non existent work ethic they sucked the system for a very long time. I haven't heard much lately- because I live in Poland but it seems to me Canada was attempting to deport them back.

And this leads us to the final piece of the puzzle. Why do you think Africa is in such disarray? How is it that there are so many valuable resources contained in a continent so well positioned in the world and yet the people who inhabit that continent are completely unable to harness those resources without a war breaking out?

One possible answer is that Africans just don't know how to build nor function in society as we know it. If that is the case then keep the doors closed when they come knocking and knock em down if they come in. But could they really be so utterly dysfunctional within a modern society?

Another answer is that Western influence/disturbance/manipulation is ensuring they never form effective communities and certainly never harvest to their maximum potential the resources they were born into. Who's benefiting from that? You? Me? No, there are a select few who benefit from this and it's not them that has to worry about: disjointed communities; increases in violent crime; increases in drug trafficking; rubbish strewn across the streets when these people move in; affirmative action (and other idiotic social policies that pop up as a result); slum lords and other predatory renters.

Who does have to deal with that? You. Me.

If I'm wrong then I'd like to know why Africa is a dump, why India is a dump and why the Middle East is a dump?

there is no way I could ever answer that question- it is far more complicated than anyone could imagine. I would think it has something to do with the amount of people in these countries. Those in power have too much power and no respect for human life. You don't see many people immigrate from Africa then after a few years return--much like Polonia. I used to have a friend from South Africa. She was white Afrikaner. She immigrated to Canada and never went back. The divide between rich and poor is massive. There is no infrastructure. The land is gorgeous and the people are friendly- but it is not safe by any means. whites do not take buses- they are only for the blacks. The whites carpool- it is the strangest thing.

Another answer is that Western influence/disturbance/manipulation is ensuring they never form effective communities and certainly never harvest to their maximum potential the resources they were born into.

I also totally agree with this. The western world would never allow this turn of power.