Multi-culti (in Poland) -- roadmap to disaster?

Were Jews banned from higher educaton or was a quota set reflecting their actual share of the population? Jews accounnd for 10% of Poland's people but were grossly overrepresented in mannfaculties.

Pretty much the same thing if you're denied a place at univerity due to race rather than merit.

Yeah, the American attitude towards the Jewish before WW2 is exceptionally interesting - and rarely mentioned.


Regardless - you want your best citizens in university, surely? Putting stupid people into university for political purposes was exactly what the Communists did.

But Poland shouldn't be singled out for this - there was plenty of nonsense sweeping through Europe at that time.

do you think there have never been Jew/Black quotas in british schools and universities? A hell of alot more recently than pre war
Hard to get a view from your big horse I suppose.

Poland wanted more educated Poles including those of countryside background it had enough of educated Jews - wikipedia entry on numerus clausus is pretty informative if you care to read - and many Jews could afford to send their children to private schools or abroad - those provincial Poles very often could not

They were Polish though - as citizens of Poland, what would it matter if they were Jewish, Ukrainian, Polish, Kashubian, Lemko, whatever? As long as they were Polish citizens and working to better Poland - what's the issue? After all - I thought Poland was dead against such manipulation of university entry - hence the massive criticism of peasants getting into universities ahead of the educated classes post-WW2.

Is there really such a thing as "too many educated people" in a country? Come on, gumishu - you and I both know that it was just a typical post-Pilsudski policy. But - I stress - Poland was hardly unique.


Who said anything about Britain

Exactly.


Fascism.

What I don't understand is why certain Poles seem to deny it so much - I mean, why? The rest of Europe has admitted it and moved on - heck, even Britain fully admits what Mosley was upto.

the issue was 1. mistrust of Jews - it was not that obvious Jews were working for a better Poland for everyone 2. economical advantage that Jews had ('wasze ulice, nasze kamienice')

I am not 100 per cent sure of that info but I once read 80 per cent of American lawyers are Jewish - and have a look at some strange rulings of American courts (like a guy who received a compensation from prison authorities for not guarding him carefully enough which was 'direct reason' why he broke his leg running from the prison - welcome to America heheh) - looks like some people there have little decency (you need to have no decency to deny common sense in a court verdict) - I wouldn't like such a situation in Poland


ever heard that universities have certain capacities of how many people they can teach? - if you are letting more Jews you are letting less Poles pretty simple

Your point is?

That's pretty much how I understand it too - given the wave of hate towards the Jewish people at the time, it's really no surprise that people would've believed the propaganda that Jews weren't interested in Poland. I suppose they didn't really help themselves by keeping themselves to themselves too - that would've undeniably aroused suspicion in such a hostile climate.


I dunno, you see some very strange stuff coming out of the Polish courts too, and no Jews in sight (as far as I know?).


All Polish citizens at the end of the day though - and in times when emigration between countries (except to the US) was pretty difficult.

An interesting sidenote - I believe that access to education in the II RP was based more on ability to pay than anything else? I don't recall where I read it, but it seems that one of the successes of the Communists was to introduce comprehensive education for all - as previously, there was no great tradition in Poland of free education. I seem to also recall that the Jesuits had a stranglehold on a lot of education - though the details escape me.

I am no expert here but Jesuit near-monopoly on education was a matter of 17th and 18th centuries not the interbellum of the 20th century - there were public elementary schools which were free of charge from what I can gather, there were later gymnasia but most peasants could not afford sending their children there cause gymnasia were in towns (no buses back then) - I guess gymnasia were still free of charge - I have no idea about higher education

Maybe I've got it wrong - but this is the example I'm familiar with - pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chyr%C3%B3w#Collegium

I thought they were very influential until the 2nd world war?

well - it looks like they were influential - but hardly as influential as in 18th century - there were state run gymnasia and they were much more common than those run by church institutions

fyi, about 80% of ALL jews living in america are of polish descent, including nyc mayor bloomberg :)

well, by default, you...the way you whine about racism and other countries policies and attitudes, as though you come from some kind of perfect nation, is embarrassing for others who share your nationality.

Britain is equally bad, just in different ways.

The disaster that was British policy in Northern Ireland from 1919-1990 is a great start :) The amount of racism, bad attitude and some downright criminal policies towards the Nationalist minority in NI during the lifespan of the Northern Ireland Parliament - well - some Poles would be very proud.

only 0.1 % of Polish population were foreigners in Poland in 2010...it's one of the lowest in EU (EU = 32.5mln foreigners)...
in 2010 there were 45.500 foreigners in PL, and that includes 14.800 of EU citizens...less foreigners than in Poland is in Malta or Iceland...
Switzerland beats the record - 43% of foreigners (who work in institutions of EU or international banks)...

Compare to a country of similar size and population, Spain. Spain has 5.7 million foreigners. Even the Spanish-speaking Lations are nor welcome there. 1/3 of New York's residents are foreign born (not counting illegals). Too much multi culturalism isn't good ask the French, Spanish, or English if they like that many foreigners in their homelands.

This thread has only a congectual relation to Poland in some possible future, and thus it becomes, not really about Poland, but merely a platform to vent, by those so inclined, about Western Europe and the USA being overun by "teeming masses yearning to breathe free." I quote the lady in the spiked chapeau to remind us that foriegn immigration was, and is, actually considered a good thing by some people, but it is not Poland's "problem" now, and Poland's history seems to indicate that she would be cool with multiculturalism anyway.

The most recent poll has just 1 in 4 Britons still wanting to be in the EU, says it all.

Are you refering to Pilsudski being a fascist?

Around that period there were several fascists. I can argue for him being a fascist and not.

You can see him as a nationalist for sure. And that is why Poles like the guy. Fascist.... well thats up to debate I guess.

I read somewhere that his 'regime' was authoritarian Did he suppress the opponents and accusations?
Some say fascists are also racist. Was Mr Pilsudski racist?

Also Poles love him and tend to view themselves more as victims than aggressors. He was part of the reason Poland existed basically. Poles might think of Fascists people like Hitler or Mussolini (who across the world were viewed as more evil).

---

More on topic when I think of modern multicultural societies I think of it as a place where whites were the vast majority and over time visible minorities have got larger and larger.

Like over here 50 percent of Toronto is multiculti.

If you are white you are part of the 'majority'. Yellow Asians, Brown Asians, Blacks are seen as visible minority. Its nothing bad just how people 'view' them.

But this is the whole point. In Canada, we are a cultural mosaic. Encouraged to retain our culture of origin but live next to others that are different, respectfully.

In Europe- it is entirely different. For example, Germany- One country of one culture (one majority)--then there is immigration, the Turks, who don't assimilate for whatever reasons. Now there is a lot of resentment towards the Turkish culture. Same in France.

I personally don't think that multiculturalism will work in Europe (completely) because the minority culture is not willing to totally assimilate- and if they do, but are a visible minority, such as Vietnamese- the locals will never accept them because of their obvious physical differences.

sources? evidence? BS?

I agree. However keep in mind if a mixed black and white person marry and have children.
Their children will be considered different by different people.
Some will say they are minority (which they are and should be), some will say they are part of us, everyone has different views.

I see a lot of tolerance in class but I wonder to what extent it is just for my ears. I do get the impression that quite a few here are looking for diversity.

I was in Poland this summer (Warsaw and Wroclaw). It's the whitest country in the world. I saw a lot of Warsaw and maybe saw 5 black people (4 were eating together in Zlote Tarasy and looked like businessmen). During my whole visit I saw maybe 6 Asians (4 were businessmen at Lazienki Park). And I saw 2 Arabs in a falafel restaurant. The lack of mult-culti was refreshing. I want to live in Poland.

Try the Nordic countries. They are generally whiter. My skin is lighter than most Poles but they are one of the whitest overall.

In the 6th Century the Byzantine historian, Procopius, had this to say about the Slavic complexion: "For they are all exceptionally tall and stalwart men, while their bodies and hair are neither very fair or blonde, nor indeed do they incline entirely to the dark type, but they are all slightly ruddy in color."

Could well have been describing Celts there :)