Poland's Lost Generation

To those that think a Pole living abroad is less of a Pole:
Poles living abroad and pining for their home country is a honorable, well established tradition. Get used to it. Read Pan Tadeusz, listen to some Chopin, and stop getting angry at those who left in search of a better life. Because it increasingly looks like you're just envious, and you think putting up with whatever your lot in Poland might be makes you a better Pole. It does not. And those abroad, they are still your brothers and sisters. They worked their asses off to send money back home, most of the time hiding the fact that the conditions they lived in were even worse then back in Poland. Pole is a Pole no matter where in the world he/she lives.

Interesting story bro.
in other words you’re just yet another British telling Polish People to go back. Lol. This is hilarious.


I'm not sure what you're getting at. You too, I guess?


It's not easer but it gives you more opportunity for development and archiving your life goals. Your article is boring British crap, I fell asleep while reading it. You know, I’m lying, I didn’t even look at it.


And I think you should consider jumping out of a speeding train.

many people have time to plan their move. these people can make things easier for themselves and make things work.
some folk who have plans for nearby countries like germany can be there, check things out and be back home all in one day.
working abroad is no biggy for many people and many of them won't come back.

the idea of Poles living the happy family life all in one little flat is false.
young married folk these days make the break as soon as they can. they follow the money and don't look back. many, not all of course.

there are even young people leaving university here and starting again at a university in another country because they know they'll get ahead quicker. they just don't see a future in Poland.

Thank you Wroclaw.


Dad ,
I just want to let you know that I'm not lost and I'm doing quite well and have no dreams of rebelling or changing the world as of yet. I have a nice house with a huge backyard and a stable corporate job that pays a sh1t lot of money. I have to admit that I'm deeply suspicious of you getting in my business lately because it's my life and I'm capable of resolving my own problems, so back off and give me some room to spread my wings. I don't see anything wrong with people being different, let's say gay. Who cares, they don't bother anyone.

I have one question for you, when are you going to fix things in Poland?
Hope to talk to you next Easter.

There are obviously jobs in Poland. The difficulty for first timers, is getting the foot in the door on the job market.

Do you see the problem as most of the good jobs in Poland go to friends, family?

or

Do most graduates, speak to there friends overseas and follow the dream?

yes...

I am getting tired of problem solving and crisis management, I am looking forward to young guns like you taking over, so I can spend more time at the Villa in Spain. You can't beat 300 hundred days of sunshine a year, mind you there is only so much golf you can play. Anyways good luck with all, and don't prejudge in future, you never know we may end up at the same business table and there are only so many, Havoks out there. Be good son. From my mouth to god's ears.

I can't speak for everyone. i see a bit of both.

the number one reason for leaving is money and, then what one can do with it.

i do know people in their early thirties who are doing very well for themselves here in Poland. education and smart career moves at the right time...

Let's consider this hypothetical situation of a talented kid from a poor family who graduates from a "low-end high school" and can’t get in to any of the respectable colleges.

Considering all social, economical and cultural aspects of Poland, how would you predict his/her future in 10 years?

Would it be possible for this kid to bounce back somehow and get a job, let’s say, at a fortune 500 software company and work his way up to a lead software developer in Poland? Or would this be a completely far-fetched idea?

This is how I define an opportunity here.


Yes, absolutely. Plus, all "fiends and family" end up being unproductive, incompetent and ungrateful pieces of crap anyways.


I hate Spain, they're bunch of stuck up pricks especially in Madrid. I would rather spend time in Italy.

in smaller companies, yes. but not all.

The education system does provide a fast track system for talented children, there are lots of competitions in Poland, and if a child is noticed I am sure the teacher is going to push the parents in the right direction.Good schools want the best children, because higher grades increase the school results and standing.


It is a difficult one, Havok because in an ideal world we all want to believe that everyone one starts from the same point, unfortunately the children of parents who are knowledgeable of the system and have the contacts are always going to get a leg up, it is no longer just about money in Poland, its about contacts.


My answer to the above would be two fold, if the management structure had a high number of foreigners, then I would say talent would be rewarded, which could be a posting overseas and a opportunity to get on the international circuit. If the management structure was 100% local, I would say, talent would be considered a threat, held back and forced out.

Good questions though.


Italy, too much gesticulation for my liking.

Indeed.

So I guess Warszawski has checked out and now he's on his way to Spain. I’m a little disappointed because I thought he's true love was Poland and helping the young people there. How typical...

edit:

wait... i thought you said goodbye


the westernization so obvious in your answers tells me that you didn't grow up in Poland. I suspect that you're being sheltered somehow form the reality.

Now I understand the glorified and naïve view in your initial post. tisk tisk, I bet a lot of Polish find you highly annoying.

edit

of course they wont tell you that to your face. lol


I love Italians, they're open, down to earth and forthcoming. Spanish have some kind of stigma sitting in the back of their heads. I guess that's why you like Poland so much too.

there is no fast track system that i know off. i've only met one person who did the matura one year early.
the competitions don't help pupils. they hinder. teachers don't always inform pupils about them and most pupils just see them as a way of getting out of lessons.

there is never any praise at a parent-teacher meeting. it's always how they could do better.
good schools might want good pupils, but in the end they all do the same exam.
schools and their reputation is a joke.

what do i base this on ? four (of my) children in different schools in wroclaw.

I know, Warsawski is high on somethin

Yo warszawski send me some of those drugs you're on because my day is dragging too.
The only fast track system I know off is leave Poland live in American ghetto, join the military and fight for your dreams until you drop

We can only mention our own experience, I know a number of children who have been put forward a year. My own child was chosen to be put forward , my wife decided as her birthday is in June and she is a late developer physically, we would keep her in the same year.


There are national and regional competitions, the teachers only choose gifted children in individual subjects to represent the school. We have first hand experience of this as both of our children have entered these competitions. The one thing that is never taken into consideration, is that in order for your child to achieve the level, to win or be placed, the parents have to pay money for extra classes with private tutors and spend their time sitting around waiting for lessons to finnish, its a lot of effort on behalf of the parent. When the child achieves the schools gets acknowledged and the interesting thing is not only does the child get a prize but also her school teacher. Poor mum, who spent hours chasing around Warsaw and sitting outside classrooms, does not even get the courtesy, well done.

Also, if your child is placed on a national exam, they do not have to sit the entrance exam to the next school, the parents will choose the school they desire and 99% your child will be accepted.


You have to plan the game, Wroclaw.

Indeed. The Polish system's complete failure to produce someone able to work after school is dreadful - and it's not helped by some completely idiotic educational requirements. Why the hell does someone need a degree to look after some babies in a creche, for instance?

You will have to try a little hard than that H


Don't get me wrong I like Italians too, regarding Spanish, in was a common quote by the British middle class, that Africa started after the Pyrenees, in Andalucia there is a very big Moorish influence in cities like Granada, Cordoba and Sevilla. Then you take Catalonia it has its own dialect/language. I can understand you maybe needing another visit to appreciate the country. Italy has some wonderful places as well, food and wine.

they choose kids who they think might achieve something. i wouldn't say gifted.


some dedicated pupils can do it on their own. getting into the second round is an automatic 6 in that subject. getting into the olympiad final (in the past) at secondary school meant no need to take matura in that subject.

some of these competitions allow the pupil two weeks off school to prepare for the final. i've never met a pupil yet who's taken the time off because other teachers say not my problem, do your homework, you have a test next week.


actually, i'd forgotten about that. i don't think i've met anyone who was fast tracked though.


indeed. that's why i now have two kids in top schools in berlin.

At national level in order to win the child has to be gifted


What I mean by fast tracked is jumping to the year above.


One of my friends child, spends his life in books, he was born to study, My children on the other hand need motivation.


I am sure your children will thank you both, in the future.

This has been a very interesting and informative thread. I see a lot has changed since my time.... I hope you guys keep it going :)

I can say the same. I'm surprised that the education is so bad. I have a few youngsters in grade school, highschool and University in Poland and they complain how hard they need to study. What gives?

How can you even say that?


May I ask what you do? Feel free to be vague, I don't care for details much.


Good thinking


I'm glad you've mentioned it again. Do you remember when I asked you about social and economic aspects of Poland?

In Poland the definition of gifted children is based on socioeconomic status of their parents, period. That was the answer i was looking for from you.

Currently the rout "B" doesn't exist. Partially this is why everyone in PL is so uptight about their appearances. (that's why I hate Spain as well, but they do it for a different reason)

This mentality is so deeply embedded into Polish society that no one hardly even notices it any more.

This is also why I'm so appalled by people who sound like you, who obviously forget what's real and get detached so far from the truth. (Or just refuse to admit it.)

I'll never forget how vicious people really are. Especially you Brits.

oh ello it's 7 o'clock already? What shall we have for tea tonight?

When analyzing a family’s SES, the household income, earners' education, and occupation are examined, as well as combined income, versus with an individual, when their own attributes are assessed.


I would disagree with you on this point, There is an example of a girl at my daughters last school, her mother decided to go to the UK for work, left the father and grandmother in PL to look after the kids, the grandmother got sick, so the eldest child who was then 7/8 was looking after the siblings while the father was at work, basically she had nearly one year off school. At this point one of the family members heard of their plight, she registered the girl at her apartment and she was accepted to one of the top performing schools in Warsaw as a local child, due to her poor assessment she entered school with children one year younger. Being given the opportunity to study again and motivated by her sponsor, the child was eating books, night and day, within two years she had clawed her way to the top end of class, this young girl was an inspiration to all in the class, if it was not for the member of her family deciding to take action, she would be another casualty of her mothers irresponsibility. There are many stories like this in Poland of parent/s that have decided to leave in the quest of money, leaving behind children with grand parents and close family. This story has a happy ending, but their many other children being added to the future casualty list.


I don't want to get personal,when I started this thread I had people with similar traits to you, in mind. You prejudge and create a world in your mind that is just about you. I am all for a little bit of ' me time ' but you have to give in order to receive, NOT the other way round. You have a lot to offer Havok ,just learn how to give back that is the measure of success in the 21st century.


If you have had negative experiences with British people, then I apologize profusely for my countrymen/women that went before me.

As I have mentioned already that was then and this is now. Move on.

We can't be burdened by the past, as we will all live in the future for the rest of our lives.

because it will spectacularily tumble down into the place Greece is at the moment???
if the economy is growing why the tax revenues are falling?

I'm afraid that your heartwarming story proves nothing. That would be the exception, not the norm. 99% of other kids like her are going to end up in a gutter and you know it.


Talking about jumping to conclusions… lol . You can't even begin to imagine…

throwing money at people to make “me” feel good seems pointless but i do give when it feels moral and appropriate.

In any case, I’m not sure how you can claim to be helping people when you’re so far detached from the reality. hmm It's just illogical.

To be honest I don’t really “hate” Brits, I don’t like your animosity towards Polish and how you justify this type of behavior... (*Go ahead and imagine me saying this with a pinch of British fake pity and belittling in my voice).

I'm sure that one of those days this will come around and bite you back on your ass.

Perhaps it is because they feel betrayed by those who are/were in power. How many of those graduates were able to find any work in PL, let alone work worthy of their qualifications? Let's face it, a few years ago the average British graduate ended up working on phone lines. The realisation that spending 5+ years earning a degree, being unable to find a job and then finding a waitering job in UK pays more than a qualified job in Poland can be pretty demoralising.

Having been reared in the post-communist era, I suspect many of them were spiled in a way their parents never were and saw the chance of making money being shown on TV, films etc become a reality. Being able to have a full fridge, a nice car (without waiting in a queue for months) was a dream of their parents, so perhaps they were instilled with his dream too.


This is a good point. Speaking with some people i know here in Poland, there is a great frustration amongst many about the close-mindedness, old-school attitudes of businesses and academia. Many young academics go abroad to study because they can get PhDs quicker and then return and get a foothold amongst the dinosaurs.

The difference between you and I, is that you only generalize and do not prove your point, there is never proof with you, its only your general statements. Your like the man than stands on speakers corner, in order to prove your case, you believe it is enough to shout louder than the other person. I on the other hand go from general to particular, provide facts and sources to back up my opinion.

You call me old, your way of debating is like the old WW2 pop gun, firing off in hope that you will hit something, I am a modern day missile, I take aim, home in on my target and then strike , one shot only.


When there is hope , there is a future.


I knew there was good in you, keep up the good work.


I have seen this too, back in the day,many English school teachers came to Poland, with the idea that they are the almighty conquerers, here to pass on knowledge of the west. There was a nice example given in another " to be lionized" most of them, just washed up has beens. Poland has moved on from those days. Thank god.


Life is like business, we can't win all the time, preparation is everything. If out of every 10 time I only lose once, I am still a winner, when the tables turn and I lose 6 out of 10, I know its time to change the approach..

Havok, I wish you and your family, happiness, health and togetherness this Easter. Enjoy.

And your point is? You're the one that is psychoanalyzing me for the past 3 days. Just scroll back and read it to yourself.
Btw, have you ever fired a real gun before? I think you know as much about guns as that dude form the 40 year old virgin knew about boobs. (Just in case if you didn’t see the movie, he thought that girl’s boobs feel like wet sandbags)


Again, if you read some of your posts this is exactly how you sound. We all slip up sometimes, we're all human, but please be mindful of your "British nature" in the future.


Thank you Warszawski, Happy Easter to you and your family too, hope the Easter Bunny finds you :)

Fine,

You have been a servent of the US military, you have done exactly what they told you to do. Why did you do that?

I have no issues with you as a person only your ideologies, address your ideologies and more importantly their origins and we can talk on a level playing field.

I only have one question at the moment. Why did you join the US military?

Because he's American ;)