Insulting Catholics in Poland can get you 2 years in jail?

Yes, I understand. I guess the American model of free speech doesn't fit at the moment. I still feel Poles should be "stronger" than that.

It does here but in Poland it will take some time for sure to bring it to the same level. No wonder, Poles just became free not too long ago.

Yes. Sometimes I forget it's only been 20 years.

In more and more "western" countries insulting "gays" can get you far worse.

That is so true , a new religion is being formed , good luck .

More nonsense. In most western countries the penalties for hate speech are the same, regardless of group.

I think the point is who cares what a rock singer runs off at the mouth about?

In any case, one can debate forever about 'offensive speech' and 'free speech', but the biggest criminals in the world, in many cases national leaders, will always speak in a most diplomatic manner while ordering the murder of the masses.

Well said, Joe. How many years in jail should they get for putting us in the line of fire? Most people didn't care a hoot for terrorism and now Libya are threatening to kill Europeans en masse.

As for the thread, the distinction should be drawn clearly between valid criticism and insulting. The church is not above criticism but people should be careful with their insults.

Therein lies the rub: one man's critique is another man's insult.

Not sure about the penalties, but insulting any religious group is illegal in other countries too, such as France or Germany.
In UK practically nothing is legal, as free speech in that country is just an abstract concept and you can get in trouble even for expressing negative view on kinds of foods others eat, let alone their religious views.


I think there are ways to tell the difference.

If I say Catholics killed millions of people then it is not an insult but a fact.
If I say Catholics are "a murderous cult" then we have a situation stemming from the following doubts:

- is Catholicism a cult or a religion?
- do the Catholics murder people as a group and as a matter of habit/policy/credo? (notice present tense)

Since neither is true I'd say we might be dealing with an insult.

But completly true and provable in any court.Unless that court happens to be in some backwards former communist country with very little history of freespeach or indead freedom of expresion in anyway...


Thats rubbish. Complete twaddle,but hey ho................

Read z_darius comment ( above ) , he explained the subject very convincingly , don`t you think so , why do you feel the need for thinking in a very distorted way ?

Well,lets just say I come from a long tradition of thinking for myself,not swallowing whatever party line is spouted at the time...........
"Distorted thinking",have you ever read orwell? Dont bother,you clearly have not,or if you have you obviously were inspired to work for rather than against Big Brother,thats OK,the world always needs aparatchiks to carry out the crimes of those who elevate themselves to positions of power...............


no,he said what makes you feel comfortable,there is a difference. Your views are correct,everyone else is wrong..........sorry ,not in the real world.

Although i am an Agnostic who follows more of a Slavic Pagan reincarnation style belief similar to Buddhism / Hinduism. I generally support Free speech.

I think that in the future this law maybe beneficial. Especially when people like Muslims & Jews come to Poland & could become hostile to Polish catholics in the future.

This law might actually save Poland. While the West might actually become completely engulfed in an Islamic culture by the end of this century.

Fair point there, PMoc. Religion is a sensitive issue for many and some safeguards wouldn't hurt. I'd just encourage discretion on the part of judges. Poles can be highly defensive and Jews/Muslims tend to be rather strong with their religious convictions so the law would need to be clearly framed to cover this.

Never heard about the 10 year old (or somewhere around that age) who said "yuck" at the site of her mate's lunch. The mate as an immigrant from somewhere in ME and vicinity. The girls' comment prompted serious investigation of her and her family in regards to the proper upbringing at home.

It's just one example. The UK is anything but a free country. As one keen observer pints out, it has become a nation of politically correct snitches.

No I haver never heard of this.

Have you heard of the difference between hypothetical situations and reality? This never happend. In the artical it is a 'for example'. How did you figure there was a serious investigation that followed in a fantastical situation?

If I said to someone they are incapable of seperating reality from fantasy which is a clear sign of mental illness, they may feel insulted even though it is also true. However, I prefer not to hurl insults, even at the ridiculous.

Is there any reason to surround a specific group of people with greater and unequal legal protection because of their sexual orientation or religion ?

If not, why so , gay insult in the civilised world is unacceptable and calls the opposition but an insult of Catholics should be morally allowed and not criminalized.

Whether our beliefs and hypocrisy does not create double standards?

Not every Pole is a Catholic and goes to church, moreover the Poles are increasingly moving away from the faith, but that's not a reason to offend Catholics or any other social or religious group .

Good post, Monia :)

We should strive for uniformity and a great start would be to take down Father Rydzyk for his blasphemous comments in Brussels. He was out of line.

a news item a week or so ago showed this to be true. but the increase is slow and hardly registers on the percentage chart.

The difference between practising and non-practising Catholics is already around 35%. That's a huge gulf. I think there is a greater need to stamp it out in sectarian cultures as can be seen in Glasgow, Scotland or near the Shankhill Road in Belfast. 2 years points to a high degree of sensitivity but Monia commented on that above :)

There is a colloquial expression in Britain ' A slap in the face' which means to receive an insult or rejection. It is very well known what Jesus said about this situation. In the case of the RCC specifically they should practise what they preach, or it does show as hypocrisy. Forgiveness is fundemental to followers of Christ.

I think the key is not to be slanderous. Insults can float in the breeze but context plays a major part.

OK, I my memory was faded. The law has to do with pre-schoolers. There was a case based on that law in regards to a 10 (or 11 year old) which Iread in print. MacLean's Magaine of 2010 I believe. I may still have a copy somewhere, will scan and post if I find it.

I always wonder why people offend and provoke each other . The possibility of expression in a civilized manner always remains avaliable . The use of offensive terms and phrases will always revolt the desire for revenge. So why do some people use a form of provocation in their speach or behaviour always remains a question unanswered for me .

Monia, it's about maintaining the tension and keeping the conflict alive. Conflict resolution, in all its protractedness, is a money spinner. It attracts controversy. Being civil is fine in most spheres but insults are part+parcel of the way certain groups live.

No you can't.

Is free speech 'within reason' still free speech? I always find that to be the operative question. Given that we should be reasonable commentators, it would appear to be.

For Poles here, what kind of treatment would Rev Ian Paisley get if he preached here with a translator? He is the guy who insulted the Pope before getting carried away.

Your memory isn't faded, it is distorted. Guidelines are not laws either.

Controversy gets headlines and is a cheap way to promote yourself.