WHY IS POLAND STILL GIVEN THE COLD SHOULDER?

Without the American market, bye bye China.

thats not all so true

i'm not gonna argue that one. I'm trying to be optimistic as you are. :)

Nice fantasy, the US makes up about 15% of Chinese total trade with the world. The majority of their dollar holdings are in Fannie and Freddie, and they've already quickly diversified into non dollar holdings over the last couple of years...while still being the largest foreigner buyer of US debt (by far).

Germany still has a positive trade balance with China...I've always wondered why Poland didn't follow the German labor model. Seems it is poised in a position to be an incredibly strong specialized export country.

Not a fantasy (Free market Monetarist Economic policy is a fantasy). The USA market is more important than you presume. We'll take our manufacturing back and they can take their money back and see what happens. The Chinese economy is a creature of our design.

Buzek to the rescue ;) ;) He will put Poland on the map for Americans to work out where it is.

Successful fiat currency is a fantasy.


I've already given you the numbers. It was make or break 5 years ago, and even more so 10 years ago. In 5 years, it will no longer be an issue. Most countries are getting out of the dollar, the only people buying US bonds are the US government and the Fed. Meanwhile, China is still diversifying and more and more entities are issuing Euro, Yen, and Renminbi denominated bonds. Full gas, right over the cliff. The world is addicted to cheap goods.


Poland will still not mean enough for most Americans to care much past knowing that it's in Europe.

Here is a classical example of what I mean by 'cold shoulder'. Bloody typical!
thenews.pl/international/?id=144615

Hardly an unjust snub when all these weren't invited either:

we all have to cut the guest list at some time or other.

Accepted, Wroclaw, though in Poland's case it seems to be a permanent snub.

times will change. once we get a long term stable government and stronger economy, respect will come more readily

That'll be the day! I can just see it now. Poland (and the rest of the world) actually allowed to print their own debt-free currency; politicians working in harmony for the betterment of the people and the economy instead of their own pockets; and Mr Rothschild says 'sorry, here's all your countless quintillions back'.

...and here's yet another example:
informationfarm.blogspot.com/2010/04/jane-burgermeister-polish-plane-crash.html

I'm still trying to finish reading this forum, but here's my 2 cents. Some background: I was born in 1979, immigrated to USA in 1990, visited a few times, and spent a whole year in Poland in 2009/2010.

What i still see in Poland is the old attitude from the days of Socialism. Polish people are very jealous, they fight and bicker with each other and still have a survival attitude where they will do whatever is necessary to benefit themselves (individually not as a group). Mind you this is coming from a Pole (me). The nation just loves to shoot itself in the foot. Neighbors can't get along or collaborate, they'd rather rat each other out (probably from the days of Socialism where people actually spied on each other). There are many situations where one neighbor will stall/hinder/sabotage any progress in a shared-ownership (wspólnota) of a building. The law is NOT on your side. You can have all the legal paperwork, stamped etc, but another branch will refuse to accept it. People there try any way to hinder you instead of help. For example, I had to fight with Canon PL for an international warranty. I had to escalate all the way up to Canon EU to get them to accept my warranty, and all the while it was a nightmarish uphill battle. Even within Canon PL, they were not able to work it out, not to mention me, a customer, had to solve all the problems and communications issues. This goes for many other customer-service situations as well as government beurocracy (try getting anything done! its as if its still 1980). This (canon) was one of the most insane experience I've had, and it harks back to some kind of 1980 Polish Communist comedy movie (movies which made good fun of the system back then).

There are so many examples of Poles just hurting themselves and their environment. Some books talk about how the Soviets destroyed many things after coming in to Poland or while leaving, however i did some reading as well as talking to the people who were there and lived there - the story is a bit different. It was the POLES who did most of the damage and destruction. I could give you a long list of things I've experienced for myself, not to mention all the stories i hear from others i know. I lived Legnica, which was the largest Soviet military outpost during the cold war, in the western front (so yes, we had a LOT of Soviets).

I'm sad to say that after the murders, occupation and destruction by the Germans (do NOT tell me it was just the Nazis, not Germany!), the betrayal of the western countries (Poland fought valiantly and with bravery) and finally the Soviet Regime, Poland has become a crippled country and the people there have weathered so much that its not a surprise they are acting a bit strange nowadays, even towards themselves. Remember too, that WW2 did not end until 1989 with the fall of Soviet Socialism. Probably the most damage was done during the Soviet semi-occupation; Poland was a slave nation. Germany, who started the war got reparations, and Poland, the victim and the country that fought with all allies on all battlefields, got NOTHING. Polish people became extremely resourceful (could not buy replacement parts to fix a car, TV or washing machine - you MADE the parts) and are able to fix, build anything from nothing. At the same time, the Poles became very bitter and hateful and they take that out on themselves.

Yes I realize that the country is still dirty, but its easy to say for someone from Germany after destroying our country, then getting money to rebuild and only enduring 5 years of war on OUR territory (and others). Poland on the other hand had to struggle uphill with NOTHING for 55 years! Give us a break...

But what's done is done and we can't change the past. I just wish Poland would stop absorbing the modern western ways (fast food and loan-banks on every corner, stupid TV programs, chips & cola for kids, etc etc), and start working together more. The Poles need to embrace each other and work TOGETHER, but there are still many left who do nothing but ruin anything for people who try to be successful.

I'm sure many Poles here will attest to this. How many times have you encountered this jealous attitude in Poles? Its a "if I can't have it, you can't either" type of attitude. Instead of "how did you do this? How did you become successful?" the thinking is "how can i ruin this person's success?".

In short, whatever happened happened and was horrible, Poland is proud of its resilience and survival. But since the fall of Soviet Socialism (1989) Poland has only been doing damage to itself. STOP fighting among each other! If the Poles would start working together, the country would sky-rocket to success and would make the rest of the world do a double-take!

Oh and p.s.
After living in the USA for 20 years, i also see that there is just as much propaganda on Poland from here as there was from the Soviets. Its just AMAZING how little people know about Poland. Our image has been tainted HORRIBLY and the west sees us as a stupid 3rd world nation (yes, many think its 3rd world), until... we have to go fight a war for them. And even though Poland was a #2 ally to the US in the middle east war, we still can't get VISAs to visit the country! HOW RUDE!

p.p.s
From reading many books, i see that the same exact Nazi propaganda is still repeated today! verbatim! look up some Nazi propaganda and you'll see people still repeat it today!! This is in no way an exaggeration.

OK, i'm done.. Polska, pracujmy ze sobą, nie przeciw sobie! (Poland, work together not against each other)

First sentence in the second para, spot on. Jealous and conniving!! Meaningless family feuds where nobody gives ground. Uncompromising! I have first-hand experience of the wspólnota phenomenon. Petty squabbles over what is, to a Westerner, nothing particularly attractive anyway. They say they never rat one another out. That's BS!! I've seen it many times. Oh, plenty sabotage attempts too and then they play the good Samaritan as if nothing has happened.

Poland needs to give the boot to its old hags. Let them walk the streets, pick up their bread and feck off home out of sight. They are nothing but troublemakers with nothing constructive to offer.

I did like the part about Poles being able to do things for themselves, though. They place a lot of emphasis on skills. It's a shame that they are so driven by money that they don't accept so many jobs that could be good for them.

The worst ones, in my personal experience, are those who go to church, confession and communion, and beat their breasts with an open mea maxima culpa! I saw this when attending a funeral, and one very 'devout' bloke who made such a show, later ripped me off something bad. IMHO, what Poland could do with is an influx of several million foreign Buddhists with trade skills. Why Buddhists? The vast majority of them are aware of the consequences of 'cause and effect'. What goes around comes around.

Good point! The added bonus is that those Buddhists couldn't be criticised on religious grounds as Buddhism isn't a religion given the lack of a solid, core dogma. They'd be beyond reproach :)

Poland is given the cold shoulder simply because they haven't attained the necessary level of clout in the international domain.