Germany provoke Poland using Silesian question. Poland's attitude ?

Oh, and by the way - there's at least third generation of POLES growing up in Silesia (Upper, Lower
and Opole), who were born there just like their fathers and grandfathers, and they constitute 96.5%
of Silesian population today.

Just to put some things into perspective :-)


Oh, well - cry me a river.

Because I agree! :)

That's what my gripe with Seanie was about...Silesians never have been "true-slavs only".That was the unique and precious past of these lands...but that is a lost past now.

It's the same as living in Bavaria doesn't make you really a Bavarian automatically....just ask the Bavarians! ;)


Stop being so pushy about it...there won't be any war about Silesia anymore, nor will there be tensions (from the german side at least)....but that doesn't mean that you have to sneer at people who mourn the gone past.

I'm not. I'm just sick and tired of "Silesians never have been", "Silesians always were",
"in the past it was like that", "the past, the past, the past... blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda."

Seriously lads - who gives a flying f*ck???

Today Silesia is overwhelmingly Polish and is going to be in a foreseeable future. Poles and tiny minorities
of Germans and Silesians live in harmony there and, at the end of the day, that's what really counts.

*nods*

But it's like with all died out cultures...In my family all what was silesian died with my grand parents...I miss it as some part of my heritage but nothing brings it back. It's just sad...(and we don't whine all day about it just sometimes)

Bear with us! ;)

... and theys still don't name roads, town squares and schools after non-Polish Silesians, and they still don't form local associations to preserve their local non-Polish heritage, and they still don't maintain their non-Polish cemeteries... Silesia is a place without Silesians.

Consider who started the thread. I bet he secretly wishes for some kind of conflict to arise there so that Poland would experience same kind of misery as ex-Yugoslavia. Well that's not gonna happen but good luck trying to explain that to him.

No it's not going to happen but I stopped trying to explain things seriously to Crowie about 3 years back already! ;)

Although I generally agree with you on most of your points, you have to bear in mind that Silesia was mostly uninhabited in early Middle Ages, which made local landlords take the land and rent out the land first by full pieces then by half-pieces then by quarter pieces to the settlers. According what I have read, Silesian population originates from the settlers, not from original inhabitants that were scarce.


Gorols. The statistic means nothing, really, Torq. If Upper Silesia were German, 96.5% would declare as German, and if it were Czech, 96.5% would declare as Czech*, still remaining the Silesian. They would not tell you why. This is exactly from the reasons Palivec gave in the quoted post.

*) A look into the statistics of Slezko would be quite informative.


Wrong, but you have to stay in Silesia for a while to understand.

I assume that by non-Polish Silesians you mean Germans?

Well, considering the fact that over 96% of inhabitants of Silesia are Poles - the same Poles,
who were considered by Germans to be "untermenschen" and slaughtered by millions, I can
see why they weren't/aren't so eager to name THEIR streets with German names.

Sorry, but you commited most bestial and inhumane attrocities in history of mankind and you
paid for it with the lands lost. When majority of Germans stop thinking and talking of Poles
as of untermenschen, still in 21st century (I'm not talking about governments, but about ordinary
German citizens), and stop treating them with an air of superiority, then, I am quite sure of it,
Poles will notice that, and maybe (just maybe) some German names will appear.
Until then - enjoy your feeling of superiority towards Polacken.


Remind me, how many local German associations are there in eastern Germany to preserve their Slavic
heritage? After all those lands used to be Slavic as far as the river Elbe, at some point in history.


The families of people buried there are more than welcome to take care of the graves.
In case of lack of interest from family members, the Polish law should apply (after 20 years
of abandoning the grave by a family, the grave is liquidated), the bodies should be exhumed
and put in joint graves in existing cemeteries.


About 170,000 of those who declare themselves as Silesians would disagree with you.


Bollox. I'm from Silesia myself (Lower) - I was born in Jelenia Góra (ex. Hirschberg) and I have family
in both Lower and Upper Silesia, and none of them considers themselves "Silesians". They are Poles,
just like 96.5% of people inhabiting Silesia today.

The Lower and Oppeln Silesia were German for very long time, Torq, and even you cannot deny it; otherwise you should deny the Eastern Lesser Poland was ever Polish... The German population of Lower and Oppeln Silesia were exiled to Germany and replaced with the Polish population from the East. Lower Silesia is now purely ethnically Polish (and Greek! Agree?); there is German minority in Śląsk Opolski; but Upper Silesia are Silesians and Poles. Of course, your family in Upper Silesia are gorole, no doubt.

RAK, cabaret on Silesian-German relationships ;-)

Well...it seems a huge misunderstandings. Actually you supports Palivecs post with that. In many eyes you don't really count as Silesians in the old sense but as a Pole living in Silesia.

You feel and see yourself as Silesian because you live in Silesia but since the old culture of the mixed people of Silesians died out in 1945 and were to a big part substituted with Poles from the East and now polish Poles make up 96,5 % of the people in Silesia one can say Silesia is a land without Silesians today (but with Poles).

Both statements are right....that you feel silesian and at the same time that there aren't many Silesians left anymore today.

Such is life...it's not an exact science like math actually....*shrug*

I only wonder what the result of the census 2011 will be. Expecting tremendous growth of Silesian population.... Torq, and you knowest why ;-)

I'm not denying it. Take Wrocław/Breslau for example - in its 1000 years of history it was German
for about 200 years - that's a long time, I'm not denying it. I'm just sick and tired of talking about
the past. It's over - those lands are Polish now. Get over it.


Of course you realize that "gorole" is a slur word? Just like the term "polaczek" that you like
to dish out to people on the Internet. I would like to see you calling my family "gorole" in the
real life, or calling me "polaczek" to my face. The fact is that you are a sad 50-year old
attention seeker, trolling internet forums for want of better activity, no doubt.


I'm a Pole living in Poland.


I never said I live there, I said I was born there.

Anyway - as Flagless noticed, the thread was started by Crow with the aim of sh*t stirring
and, to some extent, he succeeded - well done, Crow :-)


Yeah, people all over Poland wanting to annoy Kaczyński :-) I wouldn't be surprised if the census
showed 20% of Silesians in Olsztyn and 35% in Szczecin :D

See, that's the difference in our thinking:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Wroc%C5%82aw


Breslau was Germany for about 200 years, now it's Poland for about 70 years but that means nothing for the Silesians who liver there since a millennia together.


Yeah...that's me...coming from a country where regions mean alot. ;)


Nah...we are still chums! Right?

I am the same gorol as you are, Torq, in relation to hanys, the latter being the name the Silesians style themselves. The bad luck of the Silesian was all nations around have been trying to make them German, Poles or Czech. While they are Silesians, and you will not change it, Torq, same as nobody was ever able to change it.

I liked these phrases from the cabaret the most:
-- My Onkel living in Germany has been coming to see me every year for 20 years. And he has been always complaining how bad the life in Deutschland was...

-- Yeah, I have an uncle in Germany too. Every year he was bringing me a 2-Euro wine box as a gift, I mean Geschenk...

-- Nay, nay, what you are showing is a 5-Euro wine box, the 2-Euro box is of that size...
-- Yeah, easily fitting in the egg compartment of my fridge.

Not only chums but also allies - and there's no amount of Crow's sh*t stirring able to change that :-)

LOL, you use your own prejudices against Germans, i.e. Germans alleghed thinking of Poles as "Untermenschen", as an excuse to your own lack of culture. Yes, lack of culture, because the willful ignoring of the culture of Silesia is a lack of culture. The guy who gave the money to build the school you attended or to create a park you enjoy deserves that he is mentioned somewhere.

And please, this victim complex gets tiring. Comparing Nazi ideology with todays prejudices against Poles is laughable. I can read all kinds of deprecatory remarks against Ukrainians and Jews here, and all this crap about Slavic superiority. I suppose Ukrainians are Untermenschen for Poles, or not?

You compare a culture that was neither a high culture nor existed in the modern era with a high culture that ended in '45? LOL.
But drive to Berlin, on the left side you see a fully reconstructed Slavic wooden castle. Since this culture existed only until the Middle Ages there isn't much to preserve except for a few archaeological sites.

And that's why the most precious baroque graveyard of Silesia in your hometown Jelenia Gora was destroyed in the 60s or 70s? Yes, on a bureaucratic level this makes sense.

So, the people of Poznan weren't Poles either between 1793 and 1918 but Germans?

Of course. A major Warsaw square is named after Sokrat Starynkiewicz, a Russian general, governor of Warsaw nominated by Tsar; Starynkiewicz was the man thanks to whom Warsaw has had the water supply and sewage system, he established street lights in 19th c. Warsaw and did a lot for charity. I doubt Torq has known about this.


Or reconstructed Slavic Svetovid temple at Cape Arkona, Rügen island in Germany.

BB, you are putting words in my mouth. I said that they were all Slavs at the party but that means only that. Silesian had many Germans in the past but that flavour has changed.

I have no prejudices against Germans whatsoever. I am probably the most pro-German Polish poster
on this forum. I'm merely stating the obvious fact based on my own observations and reading of some
German Internet fora (e.g. politikforen.net). You are the best example of what I'm talking about:


That's the problem - for you the high culture on ex-German lands ceased to exist in 1945.
Very well then - in that case you shouldn't be surprised with the attitude towards you of
those whom you consider to be a part of "low culture."

That's the attitude of superiority that most Germans feel towards Poles, and that's
the very same attitude that they can stick right up their a*sses and rotate.


Culture is something created by men - the creative activity of living men. So, you are not
talking about culture, but about history of culture, and you are right that German history
of culture is not exceedingly cherished by Poles (for the reasons I mentioned in my previous
posts.) If the fact that people, who were slaughtered by millions by Germans, are not crazy
about the history of German culture, is so difficult to comprehend for you, then I guess there's
nothing more I can say.


The school that I attended - II LO im. Adama Mickiewicza w Słupsku (Stolp) was located in former
Prussian army barracks, which were built with the money that France paid in contribution after
French-Prussian war in 1870-71, so the guys the money came from were French :-)


For your information - I knew about it, and your remark was completely unnecessary,
but very typical of you. Get a grip of yourself Stalich and stop trolling.

Did the people at the wedding speak "śląsko godka" in your presence? I regret the cabaret's RAK song "To boł Welt" has been removed from YouTube... There is a splendid Silesian joke:

A Silesian church band prepares for a song. The leader asks the band members:
-- Posaunen fertig?
-- Jaaaa!
-- Trompeten fertig?
-- Jaaa!
-- Schlagzeug fertig?
-- Jaaa!
-- Kapelle bereit?
-- JAAAA!
-- Also! Eins, zwei, drei! Boże coś Polskę...

(Get it, Seanus?)

Waaaaas????

I disagree. That noble title is mine. Only mine. We also know why.
Look deep into your soul Torq and think....would you Slavicize, like me ,somebody who's name will remain absolute secret (I will only say that his initials are BB) ? :))

Indeed! :) Those darned mohair berets :) They spoke Polish mostly :) Silesian language is used more in Chorzów and Bytom.

I must admit that I possess no Slavicizing powers comparable to yours, Natasa ;)

No I didn't, unlike you, I wouldn't try to comment on something I know little about. The Scots (descendants of the Scotti) speaking English doesn't make them anymore English than an American, they do however, share their ancestry with the Irish. I was pointing out your mistake in using a statement like the Scots being of Irish decent as an analogy to point out Silesians aren't German.

it does not matter how Wrocław looks as long as 99 per cent of its citizens are Polish

True, gumishu. However, remember that Poles gave Lithuania a hugely Polish flavour and didn't want to give that up easily. It does look German but the architecture in parts, for me, was similar to Prague :)

there is little if anything Czech in Silesian dialect - Silesian dialect has just it's own peculiarities


the fact also remains that there are scores of Poles in Lithuania - and still noone sane in Poland wants to reclaim those lands for Poland - now consider the stance of the Vertriebene or whatever they call themselves - ever heard of Germans wanting their property back in Poland and I have heard of instances they actually got it - wonder according to what Polish laws - I have been once to a meeting with Jarosław Kaczyński - he made a speech and also answered questions from the public - in one of the answeres he addressed the issue of reprivatisation - he said we can't have a reprivatisation bill because we would have to give Germans their pre 45 property according to the rules of Strassburg Tribunal of Justice

no, i am. i consider Germans to be former Serbs.

Since when you are Polish, Crow? ;)