Poland to end state funding for IVF treatment

It's very very expensive. In fact, it's so expensive that they've completely backtracked on the idea of introducing it as soon as possible.


PiS don't want happiness.They couldn't care less if the population is happy or not, just so long as they have the power.


Exactly. 500zł per child keeps the woman at home, whereas the real problem - the lack of easily-accessible kindergartens and especially creches (the situation in some towns is diabolical) - would mean that she would gain some independence. And we can't have that, can we?


Couldn't agree more. I've spent time in Finland observing their education system, and teachers are treated on a comparable level to doctors. They have to work very, very hard for it - but the rewards and working conditions are excellent. However, PiS don't particularly want good education for the masses, especially given the fact that better educated voters don't support PiS.

But the 500 pln per second and successive child WILL NOT be given to everyone as of right. The poorest families already in receipt of some local benefits will lose part of their benefit - no so clear 500 pln. Very likely the Government will also stipulate that anyone earning above a certain amount will not be entitled.

I am not certain that single mothers, homosexual pairs or other family units not consisting of married couples (father/mother) will also get the 500 pln.

As they say in Poland....it will all come out in the wash. Good idea, badly thought out - promises made without any substance. But hey, people voted for this Government.

A wise person once said: Every country gets the Government it deserves....

Oh yes. It's pretty obvious that it won't be a universal benefit at all - everyone would be furious if stories come out about rich people using the cash to pay for green fees at the local golf course, for instance. Even members of PiS were suggesting that it doesn't make any sense to provide hard cash to so-called "pathology", as the money will be spent on vodka rather than the children.

I have just read on Interia.pl that families where the father is claiming child support in other countries (i.e. in UK, Germany or anywhere else) will also be excluded from the 500 pln.

Once you deduct these families, the better off (level of income still to be decided), the very poor (alcoholics) also people of questionable character (those that do not go to Church regularly) you will be left with 100 families for the whole of Poland entitled to this new 500 pln for second and other children.

The best example is B. Szydlo. lol!


Lobbyist for Banksters will lose they cut. terrible, not!


In Poland for the last 20 years the process was reversed i.e. education at the top level universities is on the same poor **** level as in backward towns.

She is the perfect example. She does what she's told, she has no independent thought and it's clear that the men in her government (especially Macierewicz) do what they want.


This "banksters" thing is becoming so incredibly tedious. The banks aren't losing out at all, it's the customers. I'm just about to switch my bank account because ING have started charging for withdrawals at different cash machines - so it's obvious that the customer, not the bank is paying.


Really? That would be why Polish computer science graduates have cash thrown at them?

That's the thing with money - it's hard to track, and prove that the 500 was used the way it was meant. PiS says the answer is more audits, more controls. If instead they chose to fund kindergartens and creches, there would be no need for extra audits and bureaucracy.


Why would these fathers get 500 if the goal is to keep women at home ? Makes no sense.


They don't. Especially graduates. I'm a programmer by profession and most job offers contain the phrase "at least 2 years of experience in technology X". You've chosen a particularly bad example, because in IT and CS work experience is valued much more than a paper. You dramatically improve your chances if you work as an intern.

Experienced IT workers have money thrown at them. Graduates don't. Universities also like fancy and interesting programming languages like Python, while job market wants the opposite - it's extremely risk-averse and prefers "industry standards" like PHP, Java, C#, C++. Graduates have plenty of (often unpaid) practices to choose from.

I know what you are trying to do. I disagree, as I said because on a demographical level investments in the IVF make no visible impact on the population growth.


Sure, but you do realize you are talking communism and a nanny state? All you say would make sense provided that a state is a big- benevolent mother, hate to burst you bubble, it is not, if you go communism-wise-direction you get the police state, a totalitarian state.


What of it?
I mean they are a political party with their agenda and likes and dislikes, so you might be onto something. On the other hand introduction of funding of that treatment from the public money happened only because party in charge was for some reason in favor of it.

You understand that is not a hugely popular issue and only few people are paying attention to it.


To enrich lobbyist and relevant companies most likely.


Define - strong.
The Queen have been a head of the church and protector of the faith not so long ago. Would describe Britain as a religious state?

In Poland CC is a strong in that many people are supporting it and not only religious people, also Polish elite do recognize merits of the Church and it rightly so.

It is only natural that politicians in Poland see not to antagonize the Church. Also there is a certain constituency that expects a certain affirmative actions in return for their votes.

I wouldn't say thought that those links are strong or that PiS is doing the church biding.


For political reasons as always for the same reasons it was introduced.
You might agree with the outcome of the decision or not but you ought to see the logic. You think it is a good thing, other people think that it is an immoral thing - who is right and who is wrong? Dilemma.

Who is going to decide? People who won democratic election - majority.


Let me put it to you - life is not fair.


you are a drama queen


So it goes right down your alley !

Did you know Trybunał Konstytucyjny (Constitutional Court) ruled in the past that a raped woman can't get an abortion, arguing that a pregnant woman is a family and a family should be protected ? Catholic morality at work.

Another reason why PiS Poland is against in vitro is that it technically lets a virgin to give birth (cesarean birth). It happens in UK, costs 5000 pounds and both Catholic and Anglican churches are strongly against it.

Jesus!


What's the problem with that?

They have a monopoly on virgin births.

It always amazes me that no Polish woman ever admits to actually having sex with a man, but they somehow manage to have children.
I know, Virgin Births Rule OK.

Seeing as I am a drama queen - (as someone has rightly pointed out) it will be interesting to find out (when the dust settles) of the actual number of family units who have been given the 500 pln (tax free) for their children. One day someone will calculate this. However, as the Government is not really sure when this will start....we can but dream....

Assuming they did that, that just shows the whole institution, the way it works now, makes no sense. When people elect parliament that pass the law (or even better, decide in referendum) abortion is... legal on demand/illegal in all cases/whatever, that's not up to some uncontrolled "wise" grandpas to come up with their own "interpretations".

Maybe they've got a touch of class, discretion and decorum. Are show-all pornstars and Jerry Springeresque "let it all hang out" your role models?

Just read that a Government Minister stated that the 500pln will only be payable for children residing in Poland and not in the 'uber rich West'. How strange is it (and perhaps a bit of a double-standard mode) that UK taxpayers can fund child benefit for those whose children reside in Poland.

The Egyptians won't like that ;)


So it's a 'touch of class' to be secretive about your sexuality? No wonder you like Jaroslaw so much :D


That's Poland mi amiga

if you really resent some kid whose dad works in the islands getting 20 quid a week from 'the British taxpayer' I think you should get out more, or read the papers and stuff.

@rozumieniec
Just for your information - I do not resent the fact that the British taxpayer is funding ANY child benefit for ANY child, but I resent the fact that different rules APPEAR to apply for individual countries within the EU. That's all.

But then again, all children are equal, but some are more equal than others.......

A Polish person working in the UK gets child benefit for his children back home, but a Bulgarian, Romanian or a Turkish person working in Poland cannot get child benefit for his children back home.....This is where EU rules are unfair.

Poles in Britain are paying taxes too you know. What are you ranging about anyway and what it has to do with Poland?


What? Get a grip!

I think that the state funding of IVF and the 500zl Incentive is a great idea, something needs to be done to increase the Polish population before it becomes a mess of a country to live in like Germany, France and the UK.

Poland also needs to work on its economy to tempt back the Poles who have moved abroad.

The banking tax is a great idea , the UK cronies are still resisting this initiative, probably afraid of loosing all the backhanders and political funding.

But they're stopped state funding for it. It's gone, you need to do it privately now.

Very few families will get the full 500zl I reckon. BOth parents will need to be unemployed or something silly like that. A family with 2 working parents will probably get feck all.


No, it's a very, very stupid, shirt-sighted idea. And it's already having an effect. The banks will simply pass on the cost of that tax on their customers, making it more expensive to use banks in Poland. Nobody wins when regressive taxes come into play. It's the same with the foreign-owned supermarkets.....so in Poland, that's all of them.....well, they're just going to charge us more for our shopping.

"going to charge us more for our shopping", The poor can't afford supermarkets, they buy local farm, neighbors veg patch, church handouts or private vendors on the streets like my uncle did in Warsaw,

The rest of the Lidl and Tesco shopping elite, won't have a problem paying, just like an increase in the vat.

It's an even more stupid idea than ending state-funded IVF treatment when the government says it wants to increase the birthrate. All banks are going to do is pass it straight on to their least attractive customers.


That's a very practical solution in Warsaw and in the other cities, isn't it.


The elite most certainly do not shop at Lidl or Tesco, they shop at two Polish-owned supermarkets: Alma and Piotr i Pawel - which are also the most expensive supermarkets.

IVF funding should be continued and more state funding is also needed for the poor,

Harry you need to see more of Warsaw not just the bright lights, there is too large a rift between the have and have nots in Poland and It does mean that shopping in lidl and Tesco is a privilege, maybe more people should visit Polska B as they call it. and get their feet planted to the ground, it certainly grounded me.

A feckin master of the obvious, why should Polish taxpayers pay child benefits to children residing in the west with their parents working there, making several times more money than average Poles and often already getting child benefits in the countries they reside in (because yes somehow this "nonsense" exists in damn load of civilized countries!) ?


Which EU rules ?? And so far even a Polish person working in Poland aren't getting any.

My dear young man,
If you had bothered to read my posts properly and understood exactly what I was writing, you would not resort to the kind of language which you now exhibit.

I will say it once more, so that you can read it slowly and understand my argument.

If the UK taxpayer (this includes all workers of all nationalities) is funding child benefit payments to Polish working parents whose children reside in Poland, there is no reason why the Polish taxpayer (including all workers of all nationalities) should not be funding child benefit payable to the working parents of children who reside in FAR, FAR poorer countries within the borders of the EU. The reasoning, I feel is pretty self evident.

And there is no need to resort of profanities - just because you cannot be bothered to read exactly what I wrote, and you read without understanding.

My dear old (?) woman.


Of course there is a reason ! Your law is nonsense. So you do a stupid thing and except us to do the same so we are somehow "equal" then ?? Do you except the whole Europe adopt this "In Scotland, if someone knocks on your door and requires the use of your toilet, you must let them enter" too ?

I thought it was meant to be introduced sometime in the spring?


The problem was that although IVF treatment is legal in Poland, it was unregulated.
Kopacz argued that by introducing regulations and funding it through the health service, it was better than not having any regulations.


Relating to the topic, PiS are sympathetic to RCC views on the subject of IVF.
At one time they had proposed making IVF treatment illegal altogether.


I'm not saying they don't Ironside and I'm not trying to underestimate the influence of the Church, but in an article I read recently from 2012 ( before state funding even began ), two thirds of Poles opposed any ban on IVF treatment, and 85% of couples in the 25 to 30 age range said they would use IVF if it were necessary. This treatment is what many people want.


It depends on a persons' beliefs, obviously.
For me, I can only see the good resulting from continuation of the treatment.

Regardless what people wants this treatment never should be founded from money on Health Service in the first place.


We need to be debating in some kind of order. We are not talking here about banning that treatment altogether or about 500 zl per child but about founding IVF from money put aside for the Health Service in Poland.


She was wrong or she lied as usual. If she wanted introduce regulations she could have.


Indeed but putting aside rights or wrongs of that treatment we could talk about wrong of using a health service resources to pay for that treatment.

>>>>Regardless what people want this treatment never should be founded from money of the Health Service in the first place.
Would your view be any different if it was your wife who could not get pregnant and you have religiously been trying every day for the last 5 years?