Poland could emerge as new European and world power. If?

If they speak more than 2 languages fluently....dont trust them ;)


Guess it has to be said....Prove it!
I only ask cos every Pole I've talked to who are old enough to remember that time pretty much said the Church offered no refuge.

in past not always ^^ they helped in uprisings when vatican forbid poles to fight for freedom
so like you see it seems our priests are "poles" and not vaticanians xd

Drac90, you are free entertainment, thanks! Just don't meet Leo Zagami, he would split his sides laughing and maybe die ;)

Which brand of matches do you buy anyway? We used to have those messages at the back of Bluebell matches in Scotland. I loved reading them when I was 6 or 7 :)

Drac90, yes, but ofcourse that doesn't change the fact that the Polish Roman Catholic Church supports the Vatican financially. Now think about that for a second before you actually defend an institute which obviously isn't acting in your best interest. Like it or not, you're defending the Vatican when you're defending their Churches. (It's tricky business, I know!) Dtaylor, maybe you're right about that, but then again a few disappointments in life will not stop me from enjoying the ride!

/wiki/Maximilian_Kolbe
/wiki/Stefan_Wincenty_Frelichowski
/wiki/Micha%C5%82_Kozal
/wiki/Adam_Stefan_Sapieha
/wiki/Jerzy_Popie%C5%82uszko

oh i dont want to spam tons of them coz you propably not gonna read even this :D

quote from wiki

"Duchowni Kościoła katolickiego w Polsce brali również czynny udział w tworzeniu podziemnego oporu przeciwko okupantom. Ich najważniejszą rolą była posługa kapłańska w oddziałach partyzanckich, pomoc Żydom, pomoc w zorganizowaniu żywności jak również pełnili funkcje łączników i informatorów. Hierarchowie jak kard. Adam Stefan Sapieha byli łącznikami krajowych placówek AK z rządem na uchodźstwie."

this means that polish priests took active part in creatin undeground line of defence. their biggest role was "being a priest" on front line for partisants helpin jews, help with gaining food and they where ears of undeground too ^^ this is their role during WW2

during POLISH PARTITION that is before WWI it was their succes that im pole now coz they keep polish spirit in us and this is what i was talkin earlier. Some German boss of germanisation afterpolish land during that time saw danger in church and thats why he was strikin hard in church.

and during slaughter of polish civilians by "Ukrainians heroes" Polish priest saved my grandmother, from the entire village survived only 5 ppl, him and 4 childs that he menaged to safe.


You are great mistaken, none of our money goes to Vatican im sure of it, it goes to priests that are sended to poor countries for food and medicines for ppl but this money goes for polish priests too ^^ not a single grosz for Vatican xd

Its still absolutely nothing compared to what the average man done. If they were so much into their calling, why did they not openly oppose the occupations? Instead of bowing their heads to the occupiers then sneaking under their noses?

for what they did it was death penalty too and many died or was sent to death camps
Its againts religion to kill, the sole fact that they were calling ppl to "fight for Poland" when Vatican was against it it is big breakin of rule on their side.

i Would love if admin or moderator would take this discussion in other thread

Drac90, I'm afraid the money goes straight to the Vatican. You don't have to provide those links for me, because as I've already stated previously, I'm not denying the fact that a few Priests and Nuns actually did something for their own country. But that doesn't change the fact that the Roman Catholic Church as a whole has always supported tyrants when it was beneficial for them. (Just read your history books!) I think you need to understand I'm not against individuals here, but that I see the institution as a whole as morally corrupt. (Okay?)

yup i read for exemple that Poland only country where ppl were free to belive in what they want when in the west europe for saying bad word at church or even at priest ppl were dying

:D our priests and our local church were always superior "yey" xd priest from my town menaged to collect money to modernise our hospital, they often collect toys for orphans they give free food for homeless (once a day) they opened few schools with high lv standards and once in a while they organise cultural meetings ( local culture saving, somethin like that) ahhh and they are takin care of Jewish cementary coz it seems that none of local jew wanted to do it ^^

Haha! u are the funniest man in such a while. Poland the free!!! :D Right :D

check it then you can express your feelings :* Poland was known that this is a safe place for all ppl during Counter-Reformation. Poland was also called "country without stakes"

Tazbir, Janusz. A state without stakes: Polish religious toleration in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. [trans. of the Polish by A.T. Jordan]. New York: Kosciuszko Foundation, [1973], c1972.

I accept that and do not need to read up about subjects. Poland was a safe harbour for many a kind during it's history. The first left wing country during the middle and late middle ages. Many a Scots merchant were given place within Krakow during the clearances. Where exactly I dont know, but my guessing is around the nowy kleparz area.

I dont dispute the fact of Polands history, I dispute that the "local church" hadn't much or anything to do with its times of occupation.


Oh for Gods sake, we're talking about modern times... keep up a lot has changed since the glory days of the Polish - Lith union.

like i mentioned in previous post our local church is doing good job even now

They run also common room for kids
not to mention this is only in past 5 years ^^ they renovated all churches too(oldest one from XIV sentry) but i dont think you will count is as goodmakin so i didnt add in previous post

point was that if they do this all things in such a poor and small town there is not a much money left to give to Vatican

And like i said my family is a proof of courage of polish priests



that post was not dedicated to you and not meant to suport my arguments in this discusion :*

Yes, the same ppl who give sex ed classes in school??


For someone who loves the church so much, u sure do like to kiss ;)

Again, tell me of the local priests help, without links, maybe you should use ur own knowledge before quoting others? As my understanding a lot of priests "worked" for the Nazi's in identifying Jews for work camps at the time.

Drac90, do you really want to talk about freedom to me, when I meet Polish youths everyday, who say they're really happy to be here for a while, because back in Poland someone's always talking fire and sin, or preaching about the rules when they don't conform to their norms? Yes, to you it may seem like some people are free to believe in what they want, but let me tell you that most of these people who really do, only socialize with the other scapegoats who have the courage to be themselves, because the rest will stigmatize them socially. (Conformity.) I don't hate these people who stigmatize us out of peer pressure, because deep down, I know they would like to be free. I've had to deal with this my whole youth, but I'm happy to tell you they're rapidly turning into a small minority here. There's a choice, follow your own heart, and hope others will follow their own heart aswell, or be a sheep and follow the shepherd, and live in fear. (Free to believe my ass!) I'd feel sorry for any person who has or had to live like I had to live though! But the good news is that you will always find a few people who think like you, and those people will also find more people who think like you. Untill one day, you'll see that people like you became the majority. (Which will happen eventually, because it's becoming more and more obvious who's lying.)

Anyway, let's give this discussion a rest for now, because I think Crow wanted to discuss the possibility of Poland becoming a new world power. (Honestly I can't see it happening anytime soon though!)

never heard of such tthing done by priest. even if somethin like this happen from time to time priest are also "humans" so that means that some of them can be "evil" but its not noticeable minority compared to what they are doing even know, and if you want i can share with my knowledge what they done in my town during last 10 years ^^



your understanding is wrong, priest were first to die along with jews there, some other prisoners had to do all kind of unpleasent work like searchin for valuable things among corpses but they were doing it not coz they wanted


im only 20 years old so sorry :( i know only what there is writen in history book of Germans Poles and Jews :(

yet i gave you one exemple that happen in my family



Its not Poland its "Międzymorze" one country with polish language as main i think.. english meaning would be between-seas.

Ok so many of the country schools. I actually fell out with a priest in Kolbuszowa after he advised my ex fiancee not to use condoms as sperm are so small they can penetrate the condom :/ Lets just say it isnt an argument I was proud of.

She was also shown a video of this during her high school education.


Why?


Were they fu(k, if they were im sure there would be a memorable in auschwitz. Again, prove me wrong?



Sorry but I think ur age is blinding you, one example however bad it might have been does not equate to ALL the RC in Poland.

I disagree. It hasn't gotten Poland anywhere except open to threat which, as we have seen, Russia is more than willing to oblige.


Signing a thirty year gas contract when you still have 12 years left on the current one isn't the way to do it. Monopoly, anyone?

what age has to do with anything ?


you mean to say that you will not let the fact get in a way of your view?


I don't know about that ..it may be misunderstanding on your part...but I think that the priest wanted to tell your ex not to **** ....and time proved him right :D


well you could use your head and study the subject instead of hearsay assumption and booklet why papacy is our enemy and enemy of the mankind

[i][/i]

lawl

It couldn't hurt Poland to be richer, but why do you want it to be a world-power?

You know why? It is easier to teach entire world polish language than to teach all poles english :D we will not change to fit the world, we will change the world to fit us buehahahahahe

i like this picture and feel real joy being aware that mega trends in Europe and world push things in that direction

BDW. Piłsudski was moderate. Poland (New Sarmatia) deserve much more

in case with that map... did you people notice that western borders of New Polonia Sarmatia looks like giant penis, ready to penetrate deeper? Did you?

I think Germans would support you in this as well...nearly doubling the size of the country.

but of course.

arien you are right,people have such short memories, if the vatican is god channel of communication on earth, then i have to get me another god. as you have said, they look after their own interests, the sex scandals, where were the interests of those children, the rat line, where were ther interests of justice after what the nazis did to the poles. stop you worship to these two faces charlatans then see how they react. as well as being the biggest land owner in the world, when does the vatican put their hands in their pockets to help, even their own, they dont.

the pope is a faud, lets open up their archives and scrutinise what has been going over the last 70yrs and you will be shocked.

chaza

The number one way for Poland to increase its odds of becoming a power is to increase its population.

The main reason why the so called powers in Europe are "powers" is because they have relatively large populations.

Nobody would have ever heard about Germany or Russia if they only had 10 or 15 million people.

Also the nations with old dying populations will eventually collapse on themselves especially if they have Balkanizing ethnic mixtures. The more homogenous the nation the better which Poland has going for it.....so far.

All the European nations have dying demographics. The European nations which resist this trend the most will be the powers of the future.

The key to a European nation having strength is to keep the population as homogenous as possible, keep it as young as possible and to keep increasing it. To the extent the reverse of this happens will only weaken these nations.

What do you have in mind?

The way to world power is the traditional way by destroying the other powers.Poland is too small to achieve that,only a slavic alliance would have a shot but it is doubtful if it could succeed.

Well first things first!

What kind of demographics do you think Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia had? They had HUGE youth populations that could be molded and shaped into producing things and then could be used to create huge armies (which they were used for) which were then used to attack other nations and seize their lands. These nations also used their populations by forcing them into other countries and then seizing chunks of those nations territories.

But I'm not necessarily looking for Poland to attack others.

Poland could become a European power by default. Without firing a shot.

What I mean by that is, as other European nations get old and have failing demographics, especially those European nations that have many minorities in them eating away at those countries, Poland can do well for itself by simply having a growing YOUNG population.

Trust me a nation with good demographics gives that nation a lot of opportunities in all areas. Economically, militarily, you name it.

I would rather have Poland with 45 million people but with an average age of 28 then Germany with 80 million people with an average age of 50.

Their demographics came from the fact that they annexed millions of foreign populations.It was usually done by force.If you see countries with largest populations like India have very limited power and often starving populations due to Murphy's law.If you want Poland to become Mexico its population has to be increased.

That's not true. The core youth population for Nazi Germany was German. The core youth population of Soviet Russia was Russian.

Did you know in 1939, Nazi Germany had 72 million people vs. Poland's 32 million people?

Soviet Union had about 150 million people with at least 110 million being ethnic Russians.

Also I don't know why you bring up Mexico and India. They are not European so they don't have the European mentality. You are comparing Apples and Oranges.

Just name the European country. You give it 150-200 million people.......THAT nation WILL BE A WORLD POWER on all fronts. I'm using an exagerated number to make a point.

Give Portugal, Serbia, Greece, Denmark, POLAND, etc 200 million people and you have a world power trust me. Especially a nation like Poland which has sufferred partly because it was attacked by nations with bigger populations. Especially nations with bigger populations COLLABORATION TOGETHER against Poland......but that's a story for another day.

Do you know that Iran in 1980 only had 22 million people? Do you know today Iran has about 72 million people with an average age population of about 27? That's half the reason why it starting to have the human resources to be able to make bigger and better bombs. Iranians also has a lot of European blood in them.