Poland's election winning party: PIS proclamations

PiS can be called centrist or (as they say in the States) middle-of-the-roaders depending on what polar extremes are chosen. If we use RN and Palikot, then PiS is indeed right in the middle.

I have been told by a Pole that PiS is mire left wing in terms of the economy than ... SLD. As a matter of fact, PiS is more left wing than socalled "socialist" western parties.

You are wasting your time Inpolska. Because the word "socialism" in Polish equates (wrongly IMO) with the word for "communism" - what we would call a "False friend" between languages, a lot of Poles (PIS voters) ignorantly refuse to call PIS what they patently are.

Socialists, (and not good ones either) and far to the left of Tony Blair's Labour Party of 1997 - which most of us Brits endorsed wholeheartedly at the time....

Dougpo, I think you are correct, liberal, socialist, left wing does appear to equate to communism for many polish people, but i do live in the sticks this might be different in the cities.

Considering that SLD is so left as to privatize profits and nationalize costs it doesn't tell you much.


That is a nonsense.


Sure, it means just that to the majority of people, consequently whoever call himself (bar SLD) left in Poland you can bet your used socks they are very radical left - commies. Labors are not very socialist when it comes to encomia,PiS is dealing with different problems than other countries. In comparison to Poland when in come to social security issues and state interventionism most western countries look like a hub of a nanny state in a full flow.

As before Ironside - I believe you don't live in Poland?

PIS undertake to/hope to (there is a difference....)

1. Revise the VAT laws (which requires new government departments) aka "job-creation" in small towns

2. "Reform" education - by scrapping Lower High schools etc - aka "job creation" in whatever towns

3. "Reclaim" missing taxes by "aggressive tax collection" - aka "job creation" in every town

4. Question bloody dark skinned foreigners wherever they are found (more customs/police/informers etc) aka "job creation" in border towns

5. Find 25 billion zlotys from nowhere out of a total state budget of 320 billion to fund the second child 500 zl bonanza, with administrative "job creation"

6. Fund the coal industry, when it is in fact a dying industry in Poland and ain't that a fact. You don't need to ask a geologist, it's stone cold economics in a poor country. With added breaucrats aka "job creation" to give the "poor miners" a bigger slice of the 320 billion zloty pie.

All socialist policies I do believe, but don't let this get in the way of your sick fairytale world.

VAT collection in Poland is one of the worst in EU (just check the stats published by your beloved EU) which costs the budget tens of billions a year. If being "pro-business" is looking the other way when such things happen (like PO did) and actually doing something about it is "socialistic" then yeah, bring on that "socialism".

He's just in denial that PiS are essentially trying to re-create Gierek-era economic policies.

I'm not sure why they deny it so much, given that Poles evidently enjoy the idea of being ruinously in debt to foreigners.

Says a fan of gays that doubled are debt within 8 years.

There may be a few economic similarites but certianly not Gierek-era propaganda policies. Word is going round that Bronisław Wildstein, whose Wildstein's List unmasked legions of Gierek and other PRL collabroators online, is interested in heading up TVP. "The state has to be re-ploughed (or ploughed over) to eliminate pathologies," he told Gazeta Prawna. "It won't be easy because the government will have against it the media, big business, professional chambers, especially the judicial one, and the Constitutional Tribunal." Asked if he would sack half the TVP staff, Wildstein replied: "I haven't counted, but maybe more like three-quarters. Maybe less."

I have no info on that so I'm not going to comment.


It is a very good idea as clearly those don't work well.


Reclaim taxes from big foreign firms, and all those firms which have been avoiding paying taxes in Poland.


You are making it all up as you go Doug. Never heard about that.


Yeah, don't understand that either.


It is a strategically important industry for Poland. For the next 20 to 30 years at least, and industry is not dying is being mismanaged to put it mildly.

No more socialist than in France for example, I didn't say their policy is liberal but I disagree with you lot calling their economic policy some hick up of the communist past or whatnot or extremely socialist. I think that you foreigners in Poland are repeating what some Poles say and to be honest they know squat.

According to the Adam Smith's ideas all modern countries are socialist.

Hahaha. According to whom, exactly? I mean, I'm not surprised that you want a return to the PRL, but still.

The two main teaching unions are against scrapping gimnazjums, the research shows most trouble is in IV-VI of primary school, the results are getting better and better every year - in short, there's no evidence apart from hysteria and populism.

Even Solidarność in Wielkpolska are against it - epoznan.pl/komunikacja-news-62304-Wielkopolska_Solidarnosc_przeciwko_likwidacji_gimnazjow - although from what I gather, the teaching part of Solidarność has always been rather independent of the main union.


It's such a pretty idea, but the reality is that the small business owner will be hit hardest.


It's strange. Private mines are doing very, very well. Others in public hands aren't doing well. The solution is simple - the workers should be given the company with a clean slate. Wipe the debts clean, give them the company and make it clear that there's not a single extra złoty coming from the government to help. Everyone wins.


Look how screwed France is economically...


Pretty much. Some more than others.

But they wouldn't have come here to green field sites without tax free zones, and the work wouldn't have been there.

Case study: Johnson Controls (car seats) - Siemanowice Slaskies' largest "new" employer - 480 jobs created. In a tax free zone. Your suggestions for an alternative economic model please?

If you are talking about Amazon and Starbucks, well.... that's a loophole in the law, and we can't condone them, and they don't employ many workers either.

According to someone I knew who was a specialist and one of those behind the curtain advisers who where behind reform of the education in Poland. His ideas being perverted and in short Fekked up by lobbyist and dilettantes.


Yeah twerps are afraid of losing their job.


You think? I don't know I would rather give them benefit of the doubt. Maybe they will stop those billions of profits shipped out o the country without even being taxed properly.


Fix what is broken and kick some assed out. Structure and organization is the key.


Hmm I haven't see millions of French begging on the streets or sorting bins for some scraps.


I'm talking about Biedronka, Lidel and such.

Huge queues, low prices, huge success for the consumer....

You want Spoolem back with it's surly staff and frozen pizza? No - I didn't think so.

@Delph: My goodness! Where do you see "socialism" in France? It is amazing all the ignorance we can read in PF. Of course people have NO personal experience. Personally I would like to have some socialism but unfortunately there is NONE. Hollande and Sarkozy = the same crap, everything for the rich (who constantly complain because they never have enough) and that's why those who really want left wing policies vote for ... Le Pen (true left wing economic program).

But never mind, this has nothing to do re Poland.

To talk about Poland, considering that Poles shall receive some more 120 billion euros from EU (;)), no worry that Duda cannot make it ;).

Everywhere! But it's not a bad thing - the French state seems to tax high and provide high, which is fair enough as it obviously works for the French.

@Delph: 1. what to do with Poland? 2. obviously there are a lot of things you don't know since at least 50% of the French don't pay tax (completely legal since based upon income + family size) and big companies always crying pay some 8% in tax when not 0% (completely legal too). 3. yes, we have a great welfare system (although being reduced) because the idea is to help people and to provide everybody with the basic instead of having the non rich starving to death, rioting or working as toilet cleaners or selling their as###es abroad for bread like alot of nationalities have to do, among whom Poles unfortunately. There was a French priest of Polish descent, Father Jozef Wresinski (may he rest in peace) helping the poor around the world (his association is also present in Poland) who said that we should judge a society by the way "they help the poor and the weakest because they are those who need help, the rich and powerful can always manage". I agree 200% with that idea but of course since you seem to believe only the big capitalists and other bankers of the City need to be cared for and the others can just die, I agree that you don't like a system like most French do like and want.

Sorry, but when we see hordes of English sub-proletarian backpackers looking like bums with their cheap clothes, shoes and backpacks and their rotten twisted teeth all exited to be offered jobs as "ESL teachers" in redneck sh@@@thole towns in Polska B, I am not sure you can brag that the British way is top. I'm not saying France is perfect but I hate when foreigners who have never lived there just bash (or they are jealous ;)) and I'm saying that Britain is not that great. Do you know that NHS often sends their patients to France or to Belgium for surgery because in France and in Belgium, we don't need to wait for years to be operated on (and of course free of charge in France and in Belgium since people are all covered).

So please no cheap bashing! Well, I know that bashing most often result from jealousy. If we are bashed, it's because we are powerful and maybe dangerous to others otherwise they would ignore us ;)

But... I like the French system :) Of course, no system is perfect, but I think in terms of social democracy, France is really up there. And as you say - the French system is what the French people want.

I think that there are many PIS policies that are trying focus on the polish family, child care retirement age etc, I think that France is a good model when it comes to social care and its focus, which generally puts the ordinary people first (en famille etc, sorry cant spell), I have spent some time if France and it is a great place to live. Oh and the French have balls they stand up for their rights, you can't just go round and bankrupt french farmers, without them spraying cow dung all over you, unlike the poor brittish farmers who just accept their lot and go bankrupt.

Personally, I would love a true social-democrat system like what they have in Norway and like what they used to have in Sweden (= no poverty because great welfare system and equality). I hate systems in which there is a minority of very rich and a majority maybe not of poor but of people who have to struggle on an everyday basis and this is the way it was started by the Angosaxons and whoever does not agree with it, is insulted, bashed and called a "communist". Trust me, in France, we never had socialism. What they call "socialist" party is no more "socialist" than GDR was '"democratic" ;).

Well, I know that for ignorants in PF fed by tabloïds and Youtube, "social-democrat" = (?) communist ;). Even these idiots see the Democrats in the US as ... communists!!!!!!!! Ignorance among American proletariat is most amazing! Well, only 16% of Americans have passports, they don't learn languages, they don't travel .... (scary that a jerk like ... Trump could become their next president ;))). In GB, although you do have a lof of tough ones relying on Daily Sun or other Daily S@@@t, there are quite a few people who learn languages, who travel and who are aware of the world..

I think though, there's a difference between PiS style socialism (jobs for the boys) and French/Swedish/Norwegian socialism (common good).

This might be a shock to some people here , Piłsudski (you know the chap who we lay a wreath to on the 11th of November) father of Polish Independence.

He was a founding member of the Polish Socialist Party (PPS) , but that was in the day before the lunatics hijacked the true meaning socialism.

could be! I would love a system like they have in Norway! Why not moving there? 1. Too old to start new life (anywhere) 2. too cold with no light at least half of the year (depression guaranteed) and 3. tough new language to learn ...

He has as much chance as Kanye West of becoming the next president, but yes, it does show the whacky side of the USA that he could even be considered.

@Roger: I hope you are right but anything is possible in the US ;)

No taxes paid, low paid jobs, squeezing for all its worth their suppliers in Poland to the point of extortion.
When PiS says those functions of the state aimed at protecting people against ill practices to and to ensure a fair play - the usual suspects and their lobbyist starts ruckus which is being picked up by some ignorant people whose only real issue with PiS is the fact they do not pay a lip service to progressives taboos and that gender BS.


You have spend too much time in Poland need I remind you that reducing your argument ad absurdum is a logical fallacy. I'm sure that demanding of those firms to adhere to some basic standards and to pay their dues are in fact not unreasonable expectations.

You honestly think PiS exist to protect people, or rather enrich their own?

To "protect" the consumer requires jobs for the boys. That means more bureaucracy at our expense.

Excellent point.
Take the liberal's agenda of say the global warming propaganda which is nothing more than more bureaucracy at the people's expense.
More taxes and regulations because of a mere hoax as the liberal "boys" profit handsomely.
It's called, "polytricks".

I think the link below explains scientific uncertainty in a nutshell.

youtube.com/watch?v=GXRuxuTyrxo