Poland's Economy Is Booming! The EU's Success Story?

envy?


ueber LOL


that is correct

no not at all, I am one of the lucky ones. I'm just emphasizing the fact that people are and can be the victims of circumstance rather than because they are lazy and useless.


good that someone agrees

Sorry, instead of waiting for a job, you must look for it.

That is what I did in US 20 years ago. I was roaming the streets and asked for vacancies everywhere, until I found a position of a locksmith in a Jewish fire door company. I stayed there for a year.

point being, Poland is simply not self sufficient and is being propped up by foreign money. take away bank transfers from Poles living in countries with currency 4 or 5 or 6 times stronger than the zloty, as well as the BUTT load of EU cash.....Poland goes to the dogs again.

But how do you spot the difference between a Jewish fire door and a Christian one? I'm guessing one has a small nick on the door knob.

very true

Poland's economy is booming because it pulled out of the euro system before it was too late. Now it doesn't have to help Greece and Italy who are lazy.

Laziness has nothing to do with it, not having control of one's own currency has everything to do with it. Poland still controls it's own currency.

which is 4 times weaker than the euro.

Wrong, try understand the difference between stability and growth. This thread is about growth. NOT the start and end value of that growth. When you add a number to an existing value it INCREASES in value. When this concept is applied to economic growth it can be described as a BOOM if the GROWTH is much faster than the average growth.

The starting point of growth is IRRELEVANT to a economic BOOM, because at the end point of a boom the initial state no longer exists and is so far from the current reality to be completely irrelevant.


If Polish people were paid in Euros, they would be four times richer, by you logic, wouldn't they? Brilliant.

She's not the only "briliant" currencies and finances "expert".Here's another one:


Read a bit about what makes currency "strong" or "weak" before you make a fool out of yourself.I am not here to educate you (education cost money) but I will tell you that nominal exchange rate does not determinate wheter currency is "strong" or "weak".Following your "logic" ARS (Argentinian peso) would be "stronger" than JPY (Japanese Yen).Is it,genius?No wonder America goes to the dogs having such moronic population.

.


EU money is 12 to 16billion euro's per year. Money sent home from overseas is about 4billion euro tops, total . Polands economy has grown from $60Billion to $540billion, so sure its a load of money, but Poland is generating a lot more every year, growth produced as much as the EU grant.

But lets do some comparisons here, the UK's decade of economic grow was entirely based on borrowed money. The US military expenditure is financed by borrowing - money that will never be paid back. Virtually every European country is similar living in lala land of other peoples money, China isn't exactly innocent and the Indian economy is going shakey.

Polands EU grants are being spent on infrastructure that it badly needs and its having a direct, visible result. I just drove along the newly (almost) built route 776 and its EU and Polish money well spent.

FUZZYWICKETS, what year did you leave poland?


Poland never was in the Euro and it IS helping the Euro bailout to the tune of 15billion euro loan to the IMF. Blaming Greece and Italy for being 'lazy' is simplistic, ultimately its Germany's fault for allowing it to happen.

This seems to the main disagreement between what is being written here.

Compare Poland's growth to it's history (or that of other ex-commie countries) or other countries' crises today, you can say it is doing well.

Compare Poland's state: social security, PPP, pensions, average wage to that of other (Not ex-commie) E.U. countries and you have a relativity poor country.

Both are right, it's your perspective that creates the on going conflict of ideas on this thread.

My opinion? Poland is moving forward, I would not call it a boom but there is a huge difference between today and ten years ago, it's visible.


Take away oxygen out of water and you get hydrogen gas, fact is the two things you are talking about help, you can talk about 'if' but if Denmark and Poland get the next E.U. funding 2013-2017. Another point which has been mentioned is devaluation of the zloty, increasing internal consumption and exports.



So there is work, you just wouldn't do it because of you're dignity?

I dislike this perspective, I would rather hire a guy who has been working in a McDonalds for three years than someone who has been looking for his ideal job and wage.

It's a work principle thing, I know a lady in Warsaw that finished her masters in journalism and was looking for her ideal job of being a editor-in-chief of a paper, she would accept nothing less.


This is pure snobbery, there is nothing dishonorable about working.

I have worked my arse off, I worked in Mcdonalds, it paid for my studies, I have worked in various factories doing all sorts of menial jobs.

I saved and thought about what I should do, I have set up several business here in Poland and in other countries.
I am not a millionaire but I work hard and dislike people who look down on others no-matter what their job is (so long as it's legal;)

You can obviously afford, for the last three years not to work, that's your business. I can not afford not to work, for the most part, I'd be bored.

But it annoys me to see you scoffing at people who actually work.

* Note to self, shouldn't get annoyed what random people say on the internet:)

But not any skill worthy of employment. I wouldn't employ you after sitting on your arse for three years, anyone with any gumption would have found work pretty easy, I have NEVER been unemployed in the IT industry since leaving univercity. Software Engineers were decided as the easiest job in the world, just recently.

really? you can estimate that? wow.


that is the reason 40% of the poles live outside poland...


thats true, just depending what you gonna do in that industry. copying paper, mails, cleaning recycle bins... ;)


that is closest to the truth in this thread

Hey jagg off, have a listen.....the mention of "weak currency" is most certainly significant because Euros going back home wouldn't have nearly as much of an impact if they were 1:1 or even 2:1 to the zloty. If Poles were living in Mexico and someone sent 10,000 pesos to Poland, what would you do with that, aside from wiping your a$$ with it.

It's the fact that the zloty is weak.....4+ times weaker than the euro in terms of exchange rate....that makes the euro transfers to Poland so significant to Polish economy.

Yet another deuche trying to take pot shots at someone just because they're American.


Just left last year. Go ahead.....tell me why that's siginificant.

You do understand IT people are still in massive demand and are highly paid? There is a very large outsourcing industry in Poland where IT people are needed? that IT compnies are opeing all the time to use Polish IT skills, the pay of which makes this viable?

So we agree and the discussion is now down to the precise the definition of 'Boom'. GDP up from $200Billion to $540Billion in 10 years, up 170%. You could say earning nearly three times as much as you did ten years ago is... meh. Multiply what you earn now by 2.7 times and see.


I wanted to know whether you were ignorant, obviously not

You still don't get it. We are not discussing whether the GDP has increased or not, we are talking about whether the success that has been achieved is long term and real, or just temporary and exaggerated by the politicians.


Poland's average unemployment rate was 13.8% from 1990 to 2010, now it's at 13.3% even though millions of Poles left the country. What's the difference between someone without a job who owned a b/w TV 20 years ago and an unemployed individual who calls a flatscreen TV his own these days? They will both tell you that you can stick your GDP where the sun doesn't shine, if you know what I mean.

tradingeconomics.com/poland/unemployment-rate

No we are, apparently, discussing whether increasing GDP is a sign of a boom or not. If you can provide some evidence of your counterintuitive argument, I'll be impressed. You chart showing how unemployment decreases with increasing GDP doesn't count as proof. Also, the size of the black economy v unemployment has to be taken into account.

How can politicians exaggerate a GDP increase of several hundred percent? How can such massive economic growth be hidden? how can increasing average wages and multi-million reduction in the number of poor be hidden? Could you also give an example of a country increasing it GDP, say, 400% then reducing it permanently by a similar amount, by 80%?

What be require to do this to remove this 'temporary' GDP increase? An Invasion by Russia and Nuclear devastation, obviously? Could you explain how else you could remove millions of jobs, factories and economic activity?

No,I wouldn't wipe my a$$ with 10k MXN as 10k MXN is roughly $800 (I am using USD here for you to be able to comprehend) or 2400 PLN.Look, why don't you leave these matters for smarter than you as you are obviously not the sharpest tool in a shed?From the central bank point of view it doesn't matter wheter transfer is in USD or MXN.

when a pole goes to an EU country and sends that money home, he/she is happy that the euro dollar is currently 4.17 to 1.00 right now. they are happy the zloty is weak and the euro is strong. very happy.

now, if you would like to propose an argument stating that people have NO INTEREST in how strong the currency is of the country they are currently moving to, a country they plan on working in and sending money home from.....I'm all ears.

Again, I am not disputing that the GDP has increased. I'm questioning the so-called "EU success story" that is mentioned in the thread title. Is the progress we are talking about really a success story or is it simply a house of cards like the real estate bubbles in the US or Ireland? What about the huge debts in the health care system, the pension and road funds this Rybinski guy is talking about?


You are not really familiar with the concept of capitalism, are you? The moment Polish wages reach a level which is no longer competitive, the moment it is more profitable to manufacture somewhere else, they will close your factories and call centers down and move on to the next country. And not only the foreign investors; the Polish-owned companies will be forced to follow, too.

In 2004 it was over 20% so its gone down 7%.

In 1990 the unemployment rate was 6.5%, now it's 13.3%...
Try another game. :)


How do you compare to software developers in western Europe or the US?

sourcingline.com/outsourcing-location/poland#cost-competitiveness

See, you're just a lowly paid slave...

Employed in communist state enterprises which made no money and paid virtually nothing. You wishing back to the glorious days of communism eh?


Where to? Poland is the second cheapest country in the EU and you know there are only 196/197 countries in the world. Capitalism works on infinite growth, whereas countries and reality are finite. Looking at the example of Ireland, 90% of its GDP growth is still there. Ireland is still a vastly richer country.

At some point Poland will be rich enough that companies will move their cheap factories and call centers (joke) abroad, leaving poor Poland like Ireland with 16k Euro unemployment benefit and 40k euro a year teachers wages. Maybe it will have a 13% unemployment rate and millions of emigrants looking for work abroad.

You are really dumb (aren't you an American btw?),now tell me what does it have to do with "strong" or "weak" currency?Will I be better off moving to US and making $800 or moving to Mexico and making 10000MXN?Let's say I make 3200PLN in Poland,will I be better off moving to the US to make a $1000 because according to you USD is "stronger" than PLN?Before you spend the whole night trying to figure it out,I will answer you "No,I will be in the exactly same predicament moneywise".I am done with you here,just remember,leave these matters for smarter (at least in this field) than you.

well it does make a difference if you are sending say, pounds back home, I suppose that is what fuzzy meant.

Sorry, I'm not a Pole.


Choose: sourcingline.com/country-data/salaries-software-engineer-web-developer


That doesn't make sense. Salary levels increase, as does the level of education. Countries take turns to be the most profitable one to invest in.


Which doesn't help the unemployed a bit. Go to Spain, look at Greece. You think it's fun not to find a job? The unemployment rate for the under 25 year olds in Poland is 20.65%. You believe that's a success? If you are in the lucky position to have a job - how much pressure is on you today to work 10 to 12 hours, on weekends, being forced to be available even while on vacation? Do you have to manage the same workload alone now that two or three people handled just a few years ago? You could call this "increase in productivity", but you could also call it exploitation to an extent that makes people sick (I see it everywhere here). And you are still under constant fear that you can lose your job any time.

Someone really needs to open your eyes, man.

No, you are a communist aren't you?

Its terrible having to work long hours and on holiday. Every single person on the planet can have those working conditions, irrespective of their countries economy or their wages. Why should Poland be any different.

What has this got to do with the fact that Poland's economy is booming?

I can't dumb it down any further for you, sorry. Enough time wasted.