What must be done to improve politics in Poland?

sorry but you are talking rubbish - read the source then judge - not the other way round - first of all the source is government independant - secondly the source is from the spring of 2008 and deals mainly with PO-proposed so-called abolition for those who worked in the UK during 2002-2006 - it also mentions concessions to people who worked in the UK in 2007 introduced by PiS+allies govt

So do you prefer PiS to PO then? Somebody must. Just not enough for them to win anything.

I don't personally count on PiS winning the next election or even joining a coalition govt - this just isn't realistic - not after the years of media brainwashing - and not after the years of PiS being a lousy histeric opposition - I don't know yet if I vote for PiS or this new PJN thing (PiS breakaway faction) - I hoped for a reasonable developement of PJN but they make me cringe quite often

There needs to be something new. PJN doesn't appeal not least because of the idea of Poncyljusz and Kaminski getting any power, and right now I can't see anything better than PO, lacklustre though they may be.

can i be an economic migrant in america too? i just read that even if you obtain citizenship in another country that you retain polish citizenship aswell can this go back generations too lol say turn of the last century. delphy ol pal?

i didnt land in germany, germany landed on me.

Ironside i am in agreement with your initial idea i think there is paper and then there is practical...in america people like to think that they can vote with their dollar but while true, it doesnt work out that way just as in politics you have two choices and theres no differance between the two. (just the name) this is something i haveyet to figure out or work on...money makes the rules

germany owns the world banks and this is not shared strategically with poland (ww2 reparations) i make comparisons to ww2 because it directly effects today and not ancient history, germans seek world domination and will do so in ways other than those previously "economic genocide", and the jokers to the right are the iron fist, when good cop and bad cop come together i worry.

so we have the money and the muscle and were never sure whos who but I am as polish as it gets. delphy ol boy


this is not a comparison but everyone wants the "latino vote in america, is there any similarity between mexicans in america and poles in britain or is that too differant is it worth a starting a thread?

and gumshu and jonni thanks for that back and forth, gave a good explanation.

Was this not his point? There is no point registering them as a minority because they are economic migrants who have chosen to move to Poland for work (or whatever else). That's how I read it anyway.


This is a tough issue, in theory I think you are right but only after a certain amount of time. But also think of if you were a father working in Poland with a child at school in the UK. Would you not want to have a say over the Government that makes the decisions in the country in which you work and the one in charge of the education matters of your child? Just wondering, I don't know how it works exactly.


14. And then take over the world...ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!

well my point is more of a practical one - what would actually recognizing British minority in Poland mean in practical developments - except for Warsaw and Cracow I doubt there is a point of setting up state-run or even state-funded schools which would teach pupils in English as well as in Polish - the obstacle is primarily of practical kind - in Polish realities it would mean that a special programme would have to be developed as public schools follow a government created programme (most privately owned schools also formally have to abide by the programme AFAIK) - this can change if the education is funded by state refunds to parents rather than direct funding of schools - but it is a major shift in policy and one should not expect it any time soon

other things like native-speaking teachers' trade unions can be allowed for by completely different legal arrangements than ethnic minority laws - the same goes to voting rights

What must be done to improve politics in Poland?

Politicians must become true public servants instead of hogs feeding at the trough.

You mean shoot the lot of them and than test volunteers for the job?Who would do the tasting ?

I no shoot them unless they commit murder...If they commit large scale theft, try them, and into prison...Tasters?...You mean for pig food?

What about treason? How would you pick up right people for the job?

why is that important?

The SLD are socialists. Solidarity are socialists. Not gonna happen, even without all the history.

youtube.com/watch?v=er0Uwd0nJEg&feature=related
Tomasz Lis with some suggestions. The interview is old, though. 100 mins of talking. Mods, sorry that it's in Polish. It's worth listening to in parts and he uses some English :)

Poland should lower taxes & it will promote more business.

Poland has quite high taxes. From what I have read Poland had high taxes before Communism.

Poland should really become a Libertarian state.

Poles directly saw the issues of Big Government with Soviets & Nazis.

So, the Anwser is Libertarianism lack of Government.

As Ronald Reagan said Government is the problem not the solution. Ronald Reagan using Brzezinski's plan for the Afghan Soviet war lead to the collapse of the Soviet Union & the freedom of Poland from the Shackles of Big Government Communism.

Tomasz Lis, had his time and dropped the ball, he is obviously a very intelligent man and one should admire how he bas held together his family.

The one for the future is Konrad.

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Piasecki

When it comes to politics in Poland I rather not think of it because from the little I have heard its all a giant headache.

With that said though can anyone explain to me the main parties?
Or a link would be nice (preferably English because I read slow like a turtle in Polish).

Basically, there are four main parties.

PO - Platforma Obywatelska - who are essentially modern European Christian Democrats. They're a classical centre-right party, with some elements of left wingers who chose PO over the socialist party due to history. They represent (more or less) the "intellectuals" from Solidarity. It's the party of business. They're pro-Europe. They command around 35% of the vote.

PiS - Prawo i Sprawiedliwość - essentially Catholic Socialists. They're left wing in economics and welfare, but right wing when it comes to social teaching. They're the party that's seen to be the "Church" party - although the Church itself is desperately divided when it comes to them. Essentially, it's the party for those who are more socialist in their thinking - believers in welfare, etc. A strange party in many ways - they simply don't fit into any neat "box". They are essentially the "worker" faction from Solidarity. Their power base is made up of the Church and the Solidarity Trade Union. Commands between 25-30% of the vote.

SLD - Sojusz Lewicy Demokratycznej - the post communist party. Social democrats in nature, and tend to be supported by both young people who are sick of the two main parties and older people who liked the Communist system. They are essentially the party of anyone who rejects the mainstream (this can be seen in their stance - pro abortion, pro gay rights, etc). They're also supported by the other big trade union - OPZZ. Commands about 15-20% of the vote.

PSL - Polskie Stronnictwo Ludowe - centrist party, with their power base in rural areas. They're the current coalition partners of PO, and tend to be seen as "votes for hire". Quite a sensible party, and they have a broad populist appeal. Commands about 5-10% of the vote.

Wikipedia has far more indepth information.

Cool thanks.

Actually the coallition did not disband due to the people not wanting them, it was basically because they proved that there was corruption in Samoobrona who did not want to continue on with PiS so PiS did nto have a majority anymore. Originally they wanted to be with PO who declined so they had to go with Samoobrona.

I do not understand why people want to stick to PO and are frightened to death of PiS having power. PO is corrupt. Some of the stuff they are doing right now is a joke. What is wrong with PiS? What is it peopel do not like about them?

Being Patriotic?
Sticking to Catholic morales and nto 'modernising' to be 'trendy' like most of West Europe?
Fighting Corruption?
Fighting for a better deal for their country in the EU rather than kissing EU ass and doing what the EU says?
Being weary of the Russians?

For those who do watch Polish television and have made up their mind because of it to dislike PiS I do not blame you. The Polish media has done a remarkable mind job in recent years and have made PiS look shockingly bad. Mainstream media is generally anti PiS. It is so obvious that it hurts and the fact that they keep on trying to convince us they are neutral is laughable. Not that they do not criticise PO, they have to otherwise it would be a little too obvious. Generally though, a person with a brain is able to see it.

Exactly. The voters had the chance to choose PiS but decided they didn't want them. PiS were only able to form a government for a very short time by taking part in a coalition with two fringe parties. Without those extremist and unpredictable partners they couldn't survive and were voted out. Before that they indulged in 'teraz kurwa my' politics and bizarre decisions. Since then they have just made fools of themselves.

The people of Poland chose Platforma instead, in a free and fair election.

I am unable to edit my post to correct my spelling errors. Oh well I hope it is readable anyway. JonnyM it seems you do not like PiS but have not given reasons why they are so terrible and why PO or whatever party you are in favour of, is better.

There has been a German minority in Poland since the 19th century industrial revolution esp. in the Rhineland. How many generations does one have to live in a place to become a minority? The fact that Herr Hitler had most of them murdered, imprisoned or deported does not justify current Bundesrepublik piolicy. Those who survived the Third Reich were of course later joiend by economic migrants. If we want to take things ad absurdam, then all Germans living east of the Elbe should leave because originally that was Polabian (Slavic) country! Maybe the EU should recognise the Republic of Lusatia (£użyce) to do the job!?

That's a matter for the voters. They already decided.

Of course there was corruption within Samobrona. That was no surprise to anyone - in fact, the biggest surprise of them all was that PiS were stupid enough to go into coalition with them to begin with. Kaczynski's strategy seems to have been to join with them, discredit them, then take their votes. Unfortunately, the strategy backfired as the moderate PiS voters turned away from them in droves in the process.


Perhaps people find the CROSS SMOLENSK CROSS CHURCH WITCHUNT COMMUNISTS EVERYWHERE CROSS politics a turn off? Perhaps Kaczynski proved that he isn't to be trusted with power, combined with some very frightening rhetoric about "punishing' people? Perhaps people don't want to see the Government obsessed with seeing enemies everywhere and instead want Poland to move forwards? Perhaps people don't like their Catholic Socialism?

As for PO being corrupt - sorry, but if you knew a thing about Polish affairs, you'd know how PiS used the security organs to spy on their political enemies. That alone is enough to keep them out of power for a long, long time.


Patriotic? Most of their supporters are engaged in defrauding the state on a systematic basis. Also, patriotism - what patriotism? How about you tell us exactly PiS did in 2005-2007 that was "patriotic"?


Catholic morals would suggest forgiving, rather than conducting witchhunts like PiS did.


What better deal did Poland get? As I recall - President Kaczynski signed Lisbon.


Poland's in NATO - what does she have to fear from Russia?


You clearly don't pay attention to Polish media, otherwise you'd know that there exists a rather vocal opposition to the current Government in the media. Not a day goes by without some sort of slur being made against PO/the President.

Anyway, insulting the media is just another example why PiS simply cannot win in Poland. Instead of working with the media, PiS chose to fight them at almost every opportunity - and roused people into screaming abuse at TV screens. And you wonder why the majority reject them?


The reason is simple - for all PO's faults, they're stable and not prone to 'teraz kurwa my' moments. People like stability - although it does seem that the voters will reject the current PO/PSL coalition in favour of a more socialist PO/SLD coalition. No big deal, though.

For what it's worth, PiS without the extremists are very electable in Poland. But no-one wants a repeat of the 2005-2007 years where the Kaczynski twins caused Europe to laugh at Poland - they prefer the current situation where Poland is seen as a reliable partner.

But if you want one very good example - tell us why Poland dramatically fell in the press freedom rankings between 2005-2007? Those of us with a brain like the freedom of the press, thanks.


And continue to decide.

My statistic about Jaroslaw Kaczynski winning 2 elections and losing 11 still holds.

Oh, bull! I do not live in Poland but I can read and I can draw my own conclusions, thank you very much - so no propaganda please. "Wyborcza", "TVN-24", maybe "Polityka" (half-half) - yes, they do not like PiS and for a good reason. But moving right along: "Dziennik", "Rzepa", "TVP", "Nasz Dziennik" and the bunch of various tabloids and portals ("niezależna.pl" anyone?) just push their pro-PiS agenda so strong that they make me puke, how stupid they sound.

In Toronto, where I live, there is only one daily that at least attempts to stay neutral. That's "Gazeta", the oldest daily here. All other junk papers, many of them free of charge, sponsored by people with specific agenda in mind - especially those tabloids that sell 95% adds for local butchers, real estate agents, auto-mechanics and tarok card readers - toot the same, anti-PO, pro-PiS propaganda. So do not give me your little pathetic story about PiS being persecuted by Polish media.

Going back on the subject: how to improve politics in Poland...
This is nothing original, as far as JPII's works, but he once said something of this sort: Poles should stop fighting against each other, they should start fighting for something.

In another thread here we have been discussing a "Chinese problem" with the motorway A2. One poster pointed to a discussion among MPs, on TV24 - in front of cameras of course, that took place just recently. Finger pointing to start with. Some enjoyment - "hah, they screwed it up, good for us!" And no attempts to rationally help with the problem, which after all affects entire nation and its pride. Frankly, my posts in that thread were more enlightening and up to the point than anything that was said in that public TV show.

Since I do not live in Poland I should really stay neutral - and I was for a long time. For years I was hoping for the better future for all you guys there, for the return to some normality in Poland. After all I have my close family living there. "Oh, just give them some time, two generations maybe, and the communist wrongs would be repaired, people would become 'the most hospitable nation in the world' again" - I thought. Not until I noticed the likes of Ziobro, running around with their secret listening and recording devices, few years back. And that was scary! What the hell has happened with us? Not to us - with us. We did it to ourselves. There is no outside enemy - contrary to what some propaganda attempt to push through.

Read the article "Widacki uniewinniony, IV RP oskarżona" by Janina Paradowska, " paradowska.blog.polityka.pl/2011/05/31/widacki-uniewinniony-iv-rp-oskarzona/
My translation:


And on and on she goes, describing disgusting activities of the prosecutor office, such that Soviet NKVD would be proud of. Read it yourself. That's your IV Republic in its worst.

I still believe in some goodness of some politicians, and definitely in goodness of most Poles. Problem is, we are so quick to judge and speak and so slow to listen and relate. All those resolutions, regulations, and law in general are good for nothing if average Pole does not even intend to observe them. As a result, there is no day-to-day law enforcement, but if someone is finally caught the state comes down on him with a ton of bricks. That's not a definition of a friendly state.

bolox We are talking main stream media not some Internet websites! And all the main media in Poland are anti-PiS, exception: Rzepa 50/50% and Nasz Dziennik.

Who read the papers ? When it comes to TV all main channels are full of anti-PiS propaganda.


double bolox - did you ever live in Poland?


another bolox afraid of the shadow's - I wasn't afraid a one bit!


A little guys installed by Soviets, they stayed unmolested to do more mischief.


That biatch is your guru - you must be mental!
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janina_Paradowska

Who do you think you are, calling me names? Control yourself, son.
Comparing your production in this forum vs. Paradowska's in Polityka I would not hesitate for a second whom to choose as my conversational buddy. I enjoy her writing and I am not as paranoiac as you are apparently are. Case close.

I haven't called you anything as yet!


Considering above I won't hesitate to call you a pompous prick!
For number of reasons, but I suspect you are not interested in hearing them out!


You are apparently a tool, sorry that I have mistaken you for somebody one can have discussion with.
case closed!

Do you even watch TV?

TVP was full of pro-PiS nonsense until recently - even going to the extent of broadcasting stuff about the Smolensk conspiracy theories. In fact, the only station that could be said to be against PiS is TVN - with good reason.

Rzeczpospolita supported Jarek, or have you forgotten that?

Gazeta Polska is far more pro-PiS than even Nasz Dziennik these days. It's also #2 in terms of circulation last time I checked - so it's about as mainstream as it gets.

Anyway, if the mainstream media is so absolutely against PiS - why don't they concentrate on winning their support rather than ranting about bizzare conspiracy theories?

PiS have *no-one* to blame but themselves for the current situation.