Die Welt-Poland and Germany are the economic driving force of Europe

True. Most businesses rely on consumers buying their product. It's a catch 22. It is very difficult to maintain that balance. Manufacturers and retailers benefit from the debt people create in order to consume products. They sell more, can hire more people, expand, etc.

Obviously, but those consumers mustn't borrow money in order to consume the product. To do so is the sign of a failed (failing?) economy.


Debt must ultimately be sustainable. Currently US debt financing is based on a symbiotic relationship in which the counter parties are diversifying as we speak.

Yes, it can cause financial ruin, but when done within reason, it can help an economy expand.
Debt might be necessary in some instances. It might be vital for people to go into temporary credit card debt to support economic growth. If everybody decides to not go into any credit card debt at all, ever, it could be devastating for an ecomony.

The key is to make sure the employment situation is secure and the person getting the card will make enough money to pay the card off.

Negative ghostrider. Only if your economy is already dependent on debt for consumption, would that be in any way devestating. Demand is infinite. People using their capital wisely will always provide more gain to the economy as a whole than people financing consumption with debt. Who gains from the capital lost through credit card debt?

How did people live before credit cards???? ;)

They obviously didn't, simple is that.

It just depends on what kind of economy you have and where the money is...

@ bb - not very easily. People just don't get paid enough money to live without them.

Convex is completely right, though. Before someone gets a card they need to make sure they can pay it off.

and what if there's no money?

That's when you have got to start opening some factories ;)

I think today Germany is a fine country.

In black and white,and go back a bit they all walked twice as fast as we do,go back even further and they didnt move at all.

Where would you invest your money PP? What type of factories would you open?


I like it a lot. It was always a great country.

I like that south sea island,the one where wealth is mesured in the size and quantity of doughnut shaped giant stones you own.....must be a b i tch at the cash machine/atm!

Take a trip to Frankfurt (Oder). Go by train, and take tram #5 from the station.

Might be interesting for you.

(sigh) gw, I know you are just messing with me, but I will respond, anyway. I would analyze demand and open up factories that met some kind of need. I would look into advanced technology, like wind and solar energy, batteries, nanotubing and super conductors. You know, the usual.

I think any rational person would adopt this strategy...

I wonder if there's any Slavs over there too, like Brits or Americans etc..

And they do, the problem is that it becomes convoluted with subsidies and tariffs. You can't make a good decision without someone analyzing what's already been decided at a higher level.

I don't see why countries cannot produce their own technology and have only a few trading partners nearby and generate their economies in this manner.

Well,its not Pitcairn( HMS Bounty,mutiny on...),I know that,so,nope,probably no slavs,just well fed tanned people in grass skirts...

that's kinda disappointing, don't you think? No one you can trust or learn from, sad.

I don't see the need for global conquest and would limit trade except for raw materials that would have a worldwide market due to some countries not having ample supplies of their own, but why shouldn't all countries have a chance to manufacture what they need to support their economies?

rofl, I guess in my case it stems from 30 odd years of holywood using Brits as baddies,and a l'il bit of white house burning in '12 for you guys over the big water,and 40 odd years of communist propaganda,and meeting so many british fcukwits on here,for you guys its simply you are the great satan,the bringer of all things bad in the world,you know what I say,the world divides its hate in two,Us brits for everything that happened upto WW2 then you lot for everything bad after :)


coz china nicks it,thats why.
Mind,I dont think you'd have held the same view about countries keeping their tech to themselves had you lived in the mid 19th century,not being nationalistic but Britain would be about the only fully developed nation on the planet now if that had been the case.

We have to trade ideas,thats just simple logic. The cure for cancer may well come from an indian university in the next few years,you surely wouldnt want them to keep it to themselves would you?

I don't know PP, I'm here to learn from you. So tell me why?

PlasticPole,admit it,at heart you are an Anarcho syndicalist arnt you:)

Of course technology should be shared but countries produce their own goods by their own people. It gives the people something to do and feel proud about.


Sure (lol) ;)
Whatever you say, gw!

Isthatu, isn't syndication some kind of worldwide conquest thing ;)

I always thought that she's a descendant of Karl Marx himself and that's why she knows so much. I like reading her bright posts. She's one of a kind. I like her.

Pond shops. Quite old institution.

What? No way. I don't agree with communist manifesto and totally negate the need for any sort of dictatorship.

Now I'm a little bit confused because you always said that you want to take it away from the rich and give it all to the poor. I'm disappointed. I thought, you're gonna stay my little hero, the Robin Hood himself.

i think they should definatly produce enough goods to sustain their own people,damm straight,as some one who lives in a part of england thats lost almost all its manufacturing and industrial jobs to "outsourcing",were in a huge coal field but import our coal from siliesia!!!Like I say,"we" practicaly invented modern manufacturing and most of the stuff manufactured but we dont make it here anymore its all imported and yet we have huge unemployment....the previous govmnt promised a loan of a few million £ to a local company to gain a new top rate contract ,high end steel plant stuff,the new govt,seemingly out of spite took the loan away,company loses contract,800 potential jobs and a prestigious contract down the swany....