Why is Poland developing so slowly or in the wrong direction? Who is responsible ?

If you look at consumer debt, the frugality goes away a bit. I don't think that Poles are any more frugal than people in neighboring countries. NBP basically taxed all its citizens 25% on the value of their money in order to keep Polish exports and FDI moving. What was cheap labor, became that much more attractive to eurozone and ERM2 members. It's seems to be policy to throw the workers and the pensioners under the bus when it comes to growth.

I can see that you really aren't in Poland on a regular basis with your posts - this just confirms it.

Poles, if they could get access to the credit, would be spending as much as anyone else. The amount of people taking televisions/etc on "na raty" says it all - the credit desk in Media Markt is always very busy.

But thankfully, in Poland, the banks decided not to grant easy credit - and managed to survive relatively intact as a result.

Ah, that's the one.Although I understand he was forced to join and later deserted to join Polish army in the West.


Well, he probably grew up in a family which spoke German and Polish and as Gdansk
had more contact with Germany so it was a wise choice to learn it.


Indeed, it means he can talk to comrade Putin in something other than Russian.

Well.....I can tell you here in the US us Polish Americans tend to live below our means so I thought there was some of that over there.

But having said that, what do you think the Polish government should do? Any people in government & politics over there that you like?

Given how out of touch most of the Polish-Americans are with their "homeland" (I use that term loosely) - their habits hardly mirror Polish habits.


They can't do very much due to being stuck between a rock and a hard place politically. The only thing they can do is win the elections next month, use the momentum going into 2011 and then hope for managing to win 50% in both the Sejm and Senat elections. Getting 50% in the Sejm will be nearly impossible, but if the PSL don't reach 5% and Palikot splits the SLD vote, then there's a small chance that it'll happen.

Then, and only then, will we see the reforms that Poland badly needs.

That's probably a general thing with recent immigrants to the US who still have ties to where they came from. My mother is very, eh, budget oriented.

I think that the Polish government should support small and medium businesses in Poland, instead of concentrating on paying the big guys to come over and create basic manufacturing jobs on the basis of Poland being a place for cheap labor. Stop sending everyone to university, instead concentrate on putting the kids with talent through, and give them the best education possible. Drastically lower the cost of employing labor, and make it easier for employers to lay off employees. And of course, pension reform, which will be one the biggies coming up.

It will be difficult to ween the electorate off the handouts, but it has to be done.

As far as parties, I like WiP. PO and PiS really aren't that far apart on the policies that affect most people. They just turn it into the circus with the remaining 10% which splits them.

Well my homeland is the United States.....period.

Well Delphiandomine even you said in an earlier post that the Key Financial Decision makers in Poland like the Polish Banking authorities, handled the money/banking issues in a conservative way which helped the economy. That's what I was talking about when I spoke about Polish frugalness (you can maybe say a term used loosely).

I care more about what the key financial decision makers do there then anyone else, since naturally they have the biggest impact.

MediaWatch:
But having said that, what do you think the Polish government should do? Any people in government & politics over there that you like?

Yes yes and we all know you want what is best for Poland LMAO

I don't know, knowing your real feelings about Poles in Poland and Poland itself, if that's the recomendation of somebody like yourself, then maybe the opposite would be the best for Poland?? LOL

Exactly.

Beats me how you can use the term "Polish American" if your homeland is America, though.


It wasn't the banking authorities that decided this - it was the banks themselves. Bearing in mind that all but two banks are foreign owned (and one of the Polish banks absolutely must play it safe by virtue of who they are) - "Polish frugalness" had nothing to do with it. It was simply a lucky break caused by specific market conditions in Poland.


The alternative is a growing ZUS deficit, more employee-friendly laws, more bureaucracy and generally a business climate similar to the mid 1990's which was absolutely hideously unappealing. The next government has to be able to take the issue by the horns, or Poland is in trouble.


This is one of the huge problems in Poland - the mentality that you are no-one without a Masters degree. The easiest way to solve that is to introduce tuition fees that really hammer people taking second degrees and to only allow people to sit a Masters degree if they got high grades in the BA/BSc. And drop the ******* stupid requirement for a university to have a certain amount of professors in each department in order to be able to award degrees!


Poland is a mess in respects to contracts - you can easily keep someone on temporary contracts for years, but the second you give them a permanent contract, they've got you by the balls. I'm not surprised that many employers simply refuse to give them - why would they risk it?


It needs to happen in the next government, and it's going to hurt. But ZUS is in so much trouble financially that there's really no other option. Still, the raiding of the OFE funds isn't going to encourage anyone :(

Beats me why you can't understand such a simple thing.

Its really not worth explaining the obvious to you.

You always make a big deal out of nothing.

MediaWatch:
Well Delphiandomine even you said in an earlier post that the Key Financial Decision makers in Poland like the Polish Banking authorities, handled the money/banking issues in a conservative way which helped the economy. That's what I was talking about when I spoke about Polish frugalness (you can maybe say a term used loosely).


These comments of yours is just more of the same from you.

Yes yes nothing good or positive happening to Poland or Poles is because of the Poles themselves LOL

I'm sure the good job you claim you have in Poland (I would think a smart guy like you would only pick a good job) has nothing to do with Poles or Poland either. LOL

If in fact you really live in Poland

Frankly I think you would much be happier living in Russia based on all your Pro-Russia/Anti-Polish comments of the past.

It was a combination of action by the NBP, and what Jonni pointed earlier in this thread regarding legislation disallowing collateralization of mortgages (didn't pass quick enough : ).


Heh, he does, unless the KGB have Scottish plants over here. He doesn't come across as anti Polish. Decent critique.

Unfortunately communism has had long reaching generational effects... much more so than WWII. It is experiencing many complete shifts.

huh?
could you explain ?

I don't think Poland is developing too slow or in the wrong direction. If you compare it with the black hole the former East Germany has become, I think it's not doing that bad.

I also think, just like Ashleys mind, that that if a country has to do a 180% shift, it can't happen fast. The first step is to change people's thinking. If people are not trained to take initiative, they will not. Of course government should make it easier, introducing tax brakes, etc, the schools should educate the kids to find opportunities and take advantage of them, but your brain has to keep up with that.

Poles are entrepreneurial but the tax office scares everyone off. If you issue a big invoice and the client doesn't pay, you pay tax on it anyway - the tax office automatically assumes the client pays and hits you accordingly. The tax office doesn't care that it's hounding you out of business on spurious reasons.

Unfortunately, in this small business-unfriendly environment of Tuskdom no change is imminent. He hates small business and loves his big boy friends like Krause.

Poland could use a model of stable growth. Countries like Ireland experienced rapid growth, like Poland, but they came unglued recently. Germany would be a far better choice. Poland needs to prioritise and learn from case studies of sustainable development. I don't see slow growth.

General pessimism should not blight objective reality :)

Well, I concur, but who is to implement it ?

Those that have been empowered to based on mandates and manifestos :)

Basically those that can.

What if those ?that can are not doing it?

Then it is the democratic responsibility of citizens to point them in the right direction. If the slogan 'Polska dla Polaków' is to have a meaningful dimension, it should be to steer the govt towards the collective majority aims. Tusk has been working with businesses but I have also seen detrimental things like new taxes popping up. For example, a 7% tax was recently imposed on the publishing industry for God knows what.

The most important thing is knowing what you want. If you don't know what you want, you'll never get it!

The next step is going about getting it. Jimi Hendrix talked about this in his song, Manic Depression. ('I know what I want but I just don't know how to go about gittin it')

I read an article on the Wall street journal, no wonder why Poland needs to raise taxes: blogs.wsj.com/new-europe/2010/11/25/poland-gets-new-warning-about-public-finance/

Apart from that the growth is 3.5 % and Polish exports are soaring so compared to Western Europe I find that it is pretty good .

Henceworth I do not understand at all the silly or condescendant title of this thread, where does the author come from ? A really fast growing country i presume, ( from China ?)

Poland has so much catch-up to do, and things could have been handled better.

However, things are going in the right direction and we're not too weighed down by PC drongos, political drongos, underclass drongos (no happy years on decent benefits, producing kids). The politicians fight among themselves about things that don't matter too much, but generally agree on economic issues.

It just depends in which sectors we are referring to. Poland has placed a heavy emphasis on IT and is really coming along well in that sphere.

When it comes to roadworks, they are certainly not 'streets' ahead.

I am wondering why because Poles had for decades the reputation of beeing excellent manual workers but also very good urban planners, architects etc.

Isn't it because the skilled labour force emigrated to the US and Western Europe?
The Krakow-Zakopane road took ages to be completed , crazy.

The Polish highways will be built by Chinese companies I heard, so it will be great if you think about Shanghai and Beijing highways and roads.

it won't happen. one can only build a road when one has permission and in Poland there is always some difficulty.

I reckon Poland has no government as politics are dead on a world wide basis, the fictional invisible hand of the free market(is the government) is and will be the deciding factor on Poland's future. Only a fool could be optimistic in times like these.

Just don't get Montenegrins in to do the roadworks. Our Polish tour guide joked about them being kaskaderze, lazy and slack when it comes to doing sth hastily. Too much of the old Vranać methinks ;) ;)

Why rush when you have a beautiful country on the coast with some of the most expensive slip fees in the world? ...nah, just relax :)

Oh, I fully agree. She was just joking. They are to get a 6-star hotel in, or was it 7? I thought the scale only went to 5 but there we go. Sveti Stefan, I believe. Budva is lovely too. Thanks to the Russian mafia, they are developing well. Poland could use that kind of investment.

I agree with you.
I'm not sure why this is a topic even. Hell, I don't know why there's so many s'tupid topics here sometimes! Anyways, my 2 cents is this: Poland today is more homogenous, wealthier and safer than it has been in the last 300 years or so. It's not perfect but name me one Euro country that is. France, Germany and the UK will be divided in a few decades by mult-culti and this is where the real chaos lies for Europe. Poland in my opinion is much better off because right now the population is quite homogenous. I see good things for Poland. By the way, I read recently that in the last few years, Poland has build more roads and highways to better connect itself (especially in Eastern Poland) than it has done in all of its history.

I love many things that have changed in the last few years due to an increase in money flow, but In my opinion the biggest problem is public attitude to the community.

I feel a great sense of "it isn't my responsibility" or "If I change, it won't do anything".

Take the roads for example. Many people are unwilling to drive slower because they say that everybody else still drives fast, but it would greatly improve the safety of Polish roads.

Dog owners happily foul public greens and footpaths which, when it comes to summer, are unusable for picnics or for children to play on. Nobody seems willing to either clean up, or speak out against the owners. I have only once in 4 years seen sombody cleaning up after their dog.

These are large things to change, as it requires everybody to work together and unfortunately in Poland too many people are pulling against each other for progress in any particular direction to be realised.

Younger people have more hope for the future now, which will hopefully impact their image of the community they live in and maybe they will invest more in making the country a more pleasant place to live in, instead of only trying to make the small sphere around themselves better.