Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights?

Polonius I don't know what country you're referring to but in Ireland the government and EU has no control over or input into textbooks. They are planned, written and published by individual publishers who don't consult families but rather panels of educators/teachers. The books are written and designed to assist teachers in delivering the national curriculum. So it's the curriculum that's the issue. Countries have freedom to design their own curricula.

In Poland the Ministry of Education approves textbooks to be used in public schools which are of course printed by private publishers. The information from actress Joanna Szczepkowska was that married families with kids reprensenting the overwhelming majority are no longer invited to provide their parental opinons on planned textbooks. BTW Szczepkowska as an actress grew up amongst gays and lesbians and not only supports same-sex partnerships but even marriage. By the same token that gave her an opportuntiy to observe close-up various forms of bullying. mobbing and manipulation within the gay community.

All this sort of stuff is just weird - total, absolute fiction. It doesn't happen in Poland or anywhere else. It isn't an argument either for or against increasing human rights legislation.

Only a fool would believe nonsense like that; only an even bigger fool would pretend to believe it and then disseminate it. In Poland (as elsewhere, but especially in Poland over this year and the next) there's much debate on the form legislation should take, the rights of couples to be recognised as such, custody of their kids etc. None of this stuff is taken seriously - lawmakers can see with their own eyes. It actually harms the ultra-conservative point of view. More important, it can harm decent, family-orientated or not, law-abiding, tax-paying LGBT people who are caught in whatever administrative loophole.

Those of us in the older generation are used to it, yet we still fight back and press forward. The younger, upcoming generation who never experienced the ghettoisation of the past simply won't stand for it - nor will their straight family and friends.

A few years back the gay communtiy said they were absolutely not interested in marirage or adoptions, only civil partnerships, and yet today such demands are no longer "absolute fiction" but reality.Few movements ever immediatley stop expanding their ranks and escalating their demands of their own accord, so why should LBGTQ be nay different.

You spoke to every lesbian or gay man and asked?


Nor are they 'demands' in most developed and civilised countries; civil rights are acknowledged for all regardless of sexuality - it will be the same in Poland.


That quote didn't refer to marriage equality; it referred to your


- care to provide sources for any government planning to introduce that? Bet you can't...


Think of the style, the good clothes, the restaurants, the impeccable service, the immaculately trimmed poodles, the first class healthcare and elderly care, the excellent netball teams, the ladies' arm-wrestling. And no such thing as a bad haircut.

You'll notice I used the term pansexualisation, because not only the oturageous and unjustified demand for gay marriage but the overall proliferation of eroticism are destroying the family and society. Marriage was, is and will always be the union of a man and woman regardless if 3 Leszek Millers, 5 Obamas, 2 Grodzkas or the state legislature of North Carolina say otherwise. As a legalist I assume you would have supported the Nuremberg Laws. The law is the law, innit?

Nope. It is about your:


- care to expand?

Stop that 'innit' business. It's silly and rude.


I'm not being awkward here Polonius and I'm speaking purely as a kindergarten and elementary school teacher but parental opinion is not needed for planned textbooks. There's no reason to consult parents. It's essential that parents should be involved in their childrens' education but they have no really useful role to serve in vetting textbooks. The purpose of textbooks is to support the teacher in delivering the curriculum, covering the syllabus for the year and assisting the children in achieving learning goals. Teachers choose which books to use based on that. How for example can a parent be an expert in which type of maths book is best suited to the 10-12 year old?? As a matter of fact in Ireland anyway the Dept of Education has been trying to actively discourage reliance on textbooks and encourages teachers to design a range of original learning materials and lesson plans; this is to assist with teaching children of different levels of ability in a single class. Many children may be either well below or somewhat ahead in their level and purpose made worksheets, etc supported by a general reference library are often much better as teaching and learning tools.

Besides Polonius, you simply can't put that kind of control in place in schools because schools have many other books apart from textbooks. All schools have a library, as well as individual class libraries or book corners and the material there, while carefully selected reflects a wide range of published material. If childrens' books begin to feature non-conventional family images, it will be virtually impossible to censor this entirely from a child's life. And what about public libraries?

It is quite obvious by now that we are working at cross purposes. I believe parental control is needed so undesirable content such as LGBTQ propaganda does not slip in the curriculum. You are hoping it does, but many Polish parents would not like their youngsters exposed to the kind of libertinism being peddled by schools in some other countries. They will be able to breathe a sigh of relief when PiS wins the election -- the best guarantee that pansexual content is not forced down kids' throats.

@Polonius3; how does this relate to the subject? Also, since when did parents decide the school curriculum of their kids? I thought there was a ministry of education with experts that decide that kind of thing. Anyone with a healthy reproductive system can have kids, but that doesn't make them experts on education now does it?

Well, we can look back in history and argue whether or not it was German parents who essentially decided on their children's curriculum in school during the Third Reich because they voted for the NSDAP. who in turn changed the curriculum to suit their needs.

Funnily enough it is today's righteous "Poles", or rather American - Poles (who were never in Poland) who know what is best for Poland, rant about German terror in Poland and yet keep displaying a Nazi-like ignorance towards anything that they believe isn't Polish. It is also the same people who believe that a "Kielbasa" is a specific type of "Polish sausage"........

Why do you even bother?

Government bureaucrats in charge of educaiton get their salarties paid by the taxpayer. Is it fair to say: pay nad keep your yap shut! Concerned parents should have an opportunity to provide opinions on what their kids are being taught, especially in such a sensitive and controversial area as sexuality. Parents give their views at parent-teacher meetings, may contact thre ministry directly and under Polish law are free to circulate petitions to back their expectations.

Exactly. Which is why we listen to legislators more than some rabid mob when making decisions about human and civil rights whether for LGBT people or anyone else. Elitist? Why not. Poland is no exception to this.

Otherwise nothing would ever change!

It is very sad that west of Europe giving lesson to us Slavs, how should we behave on our own Slavic LGBT population. Why would western Europeans care for rights of Slavic homosexual population? What a joke

Your own former premier Wałęsa has made some highly controversial comments about gays! Figure he's not exactly with Pope Francis on that one either:-)

A metaphor (you do know what that is?!) for the whole pansexualist schlick -- homo agitators in Poland demanding unconstitutional "rights", Norway allowing teenagers to choose their own gender, the "cosy corners" in German kindergartens where youngsters "explore and fondle each other", the huge volume of vile, repulsive Internet porn, abortion on a whim with no questions asked being pressed by Polish feminists -- the whole lot of unbridled libertinism, usually prettied up with fancy rhetoric to sound more innocuous than it really is.....

That just isn't true. If it was, it wouldn't be considered a human right and has nothing to do with Poland.


Nor is this in any way connected, In fact, most of it originates in a conservative, 'God-fearing' society across the ocean.

Democratic or not `democratic`, by some or any standards, Poland have its homosexual population. Every country have its homosexual population. Some people love vagina, some people love other man`s arse, some woman likes solely vagina,.... etc things always existed in any society in all times. Now western European magnates coming to Poland, allover the Slavic world, after all, and brings rights to Slavic homosexual population. At the time, when those same magnates don`t have understanding for rights of anything Slavic. Think about it. It brings divisions among Slavs. How could they care for our homosexuals when they negate Slavs as Slavs? as if Polish homosexual isn`t Polish? i mean, west of Europe have history of negations of Slavs and they still behave according to that history.

So, i don`t know what is problem here. People differ among each others. i don`t need western Europeans to remind me of that fact. When all Slavs start to live better, their LGBT population would start to live better. We don`t need western Europeans to care for our people, no matter what are their sexual priorities. Nonsenses

That's right, Crow, Poland has its homosexual population, always had and always shall have and so it is... Bigots shall not impose their views as to who should have rights and who should have their rights denied.

Anything can be and has been called a "right". How about prenatal murder (abortion) "rihgts", Jew-kllling "rights", sibling-marriage "rights"? What about gun-owning "rights"? If you own a dog do you have the "right" to abuse or torture it? Some people think they do: "It's MY dog, so don't stick your nose in my business!"

They'd love to, however the Polish authorities (with the exception of the best-forgotten short-lived blip that was the PiS/LPR/SO coalition) are generally to sensible and practical to listen to their ravings - human and civil rights law in Poland, though far from perfect, has managed well to stand up to the relentless onslaught from the dark forces of bigotry.

The dark forces of LGBTQ anti-hetero, anti-family and Christophobic bigotry better be careful after their
paid MP lobbyists are swept away by democratic vote this autumn and replaced by true Polish patriots supporting human decency and Catholic family values rather than "trendy" imported libertine novelties.

What I hope is that you are more circumspect in your speech in the real world than you are in the virtual one. Otherwise, knowing the litigious culture of America you will find yourself landed with a slander suit. Making such an accusation in public, before witnesses, to a respected teacher in a Catholic school could be potentially extremely damaging for that individual. Thankfully in Ireland you would be set upon by a howling lynch mob of angry mothers whose children I have been privileged to teach and guide for many years. Irish schools and teachers are internationally renowned (and you check that) for the quality of pastoral care which they give to children. Having spent my teaching career thus far in inner city schools amongst severely disadvantaged children I can assure you that the school and its staff are often the only source and example of stability, order and decent values in the lives of children whose parents are drunks, junkies and jailbirds, to use terms you would understand.


An unfortunate analogy.


The only vile and repulsive thing here Polonius is your own filthy and disgusting sexual obsessions. Kindly stop forcing them down our throats.

In other words beating about the bush, using prettifying euphemisms, never describing things as they really are but using nice-sounding slogans and labels, in other words sugar-coating reality?

It is precisely because too many people have fallen for pleasant-sounding buzzwords that decadence has been making such inroads.

The U.S. Supreme Court just ruled that the U.S. Constitution gives all Polish gays living in America the right to marry. :-(
Another sad day in America.

The Supreme Court Just Made Gay Marriage Legal Everywhere in the United States

motherjones.com/mojo/2015/06/supreme-court-gay-marriage

oh joy and I can just imagine polonius seeth :)

@FlaglessPole; in Poland it is a matter of when, not if.

well I do hope so

Great news! As I've said all along, this is happening everywhere - soon in Poland, everyone will have the same rights.

And sibling and man-boy marriage rights are just round the corner! Hurray, yippee!