Decoded talks inside Poland's president's plane are released in Internet

Yes, with the assistance of precision landing systems. Unless of course, you're stupid enough (or simply uninformed) to believe that they do it blind.


If they misinterpreted it, then they should have had a Russian native speaker on board - or at the very least, a navigator who spoke the language. There's no evidence on the CVR to suggest that anyone but the Captain spoke Russian. Then again - I'm not sure how you can misinterpret "minimum 120m" and instead voluntarily fly below it. I'm also not sure how you can misinterpret your fellow Poles saying "Hey, the weather is bad" - and I'm not sure how you can misinterpret "Smolensk-North here, there are no conditions for landing".

Also, it's not the Russian version of things, but the Polish version. MAK didn't release the transcript - Poland did. So - are the Poles liars?

You FOOL that's the whole point I have been making! In this situation, the pilot needed critical help not only from the inarticulate Russian tower guy, but from the Russian airport system communication equipment that according to German aviation experts, gave FALSE information to the plane.

MediaWatch:
Once again we don't have definite confirmation of what he actually heard or knew outside of the RUSSIAN version of things. Even the link YOU provided stated that what the Russian tower said to him could have been misintrepreted by minor changes of the inflections of the Russian sylables and word used by the Russian tower.


The Tusk government was taking a long time to present anything to the people. The Polish people were getting suspicious that nothing was being presented to them so FINALLY the Tusk government provided the RUSSIAN transcripts to the Polish public and basically said "Yeah we think these transcripts are OK". Because Tusk wants Raproachment with Russia and doesn't want to ask too many tough questions to the Russians since naturally this would jeopardize it. But lets say in a best case scenario, to YOUR POINT, that Mr. Tusk/Polish State BELIEVES what the Russians said, that still doesn't make what the Russians said the truth. Can't Tusk and his colleagues be wrong??? Can't the Polish state be wrong???? Remember you were the one talking about those "THICKHEADED POLES". Can't the Polish state have gotten it wrong becuase they are THICKHEADED as you would say??

Even putting aside Russia in this equation, you mean to tell me that the government of ANY nation is ALWAYS accurate in how they explain a situation?

Was the US government accurate in explaining the Kennedy Assasination?
Was the Soviet government accurate in explaining the Katyn Massacre (or just about anything for that matter)?

So I guess when the government of nation (fill in the blank) gives the explanation of something we should not question it! Many Poles still have questions with this investigation.

Then you have the plane crash footage and the guy getting killed for taking that video (how can you make this up???). The airport thugs who looted the dead Poles YET we are suppose to take the WORD of their airport colleagues on the truth of what happened. For Gods sake how can people not have any questions on this whole thing?????

But NO NO NO that's ALL FINE WITH YOU!!!! Everything crazy that transpired relative to this strange tragedy I guess are all perfectly normal to you!! LOL

All the weird things happening around this whole Polish Crash tragedy during and after the tragedy, according to you, NO BIG DEAL!!!!!!!! LOL

Give me a break.

So all these strange events around this whole crash are all made up by "anti-Russian conspiracy Poles?" So Poles are using KGB NKVD methods now??? LOL

I haven't read all the posts on this thread, probably should've but there're so many conspiracy theories here that I gave up. I don't know all the facts so everything I say is pure speculation. However, what German findings are you talking about? I think the Russians made a mistake by puting Putin (hey, it rhymes;) in charge. Well meant but shows lack of understanding of the distrust most Poles feel to anyone ever associated with the KGB. Also, they should've invited international experts prompto! Not because they were needed but to show good-will and to dispel all conspiracies from the get-go.

We don't have all the facts BUT it's always the crew, and in particular the captain who decides if a landing should be attempted. Tower, ATC, it's all very appreciated help but if we don't like it we go missed and either try again or go somewhere else. What bugs me the very most is the response or apparently late response to the ground prox warning, EGPWS, or TAWS if you prefer. I bet you most pilots who're sound asleep would "add power and pitch up" if they heard "TERRAIN TERRAIN WHOOP WHOOP PULL-UP" while asleep. That's how we're wired. I'm perplexed at what happened there. Still waiting for the official investigation to be concluded to find out why they got so low and why they didn't go around as soon as the GEEPWHIZ (EGPWS) kicked in?

Smolensk airport is not in EGPWS database.

"Everything I say is pure speculation", sky?

Well, let me tell you that good conspiracy theorists go well beyond that. They apply science, knit factors together and use hard facts.

You speculate yet you back the official line to the hilt, odd!

So - you're officially declaring that you trust German aviation experts over Polish ones? My my my - aren't you the patriot? I mean, it's quite ironic that you believe that Germans are more knowledgeable and trustworthy than the Polish State.

Anyway - WHAT equipment? There was no precision landing equipment at Smolensk-North - and even if there was, they certainly weren't using it to land. I very much doubt that there was much of anything there - why would there be, when the base was decommissioned?

And tell me - how would any sort of automated landing system overrule the fact that both altimeters showed the plane descending below 150m on autopilot? I mean, the Polish transcript tells us clearly that they didn't respond to them going below 160m - at which point, they should have started to pull up due to the limitations of the Tupolev.


Well, you're accusing the very top guys in the country of being wrong. Powerful stuff, especially as you have a) no experience in this sort of thing and b) you're just a nobody.


Show me any evidence whatsoever from a credible news source about the guy being killed. Not the Kavkah Center, please! Oh, that's right - no-one reported it, because no-one sane trusts a random website of completely uncertain origin that publishes no contact details.

You know - I'll leave investigations to trained professionals. Certainly, they're likely to be far better at their job than some little man who posts conspiracy theories online!

I still love the irony of someone posting about a conspiracy theory that includes all the top brass in Poland lying, fellow members of the Air Force lying and even better - the same conspiracy theory relies on the word of Germans and Muslims hell bent on jihad who think nothing of murdering innocent people. I love it!

Sorry, but I'll trust the Polish State more than I trust Germans or Muslim separatists. I mean - in the same spirit of all great Polish nationalists - I will trust the Polish State more than I trust foreigners.

Delph, stop being disrespectful please ;) ;) There's a Smolensk silence on at the moment ;)

And that would be why Germany is more advanced than Poland. They don't waste time lamenting over the irrelevant past, and they aren't unnecessarily sentimental.

It's just a question of who is in power. They are siding with Russia but it takes MUCH longer to win over the people, esp Polish people.

all the top brass were killed ****************************************

talk about irony, better yet just keep it shut

russians are proven murder liars

Never heard of "promotion"?

No, didn't think so either.

I don't think the radar altimeter cares about what's in the database.


I guess all the ones that they didn't kill off in the CASA crash...

Excellent point, MW. But, unfortunately, majority will buy into it being an accident.

It's a joint investigation. Grasping at straws here...

Remember the Su-27 that went down in Lithuania a couple of years back, guess who investigated that...

**** poor planning + poor safety record + descending through minimums = aircraft stuck in the ground

So far, sounds fairly likely. Somehow the Russians managed to change the air pressure, sabotage the radar altimeter, the GPS units, infiltrate the major chart suppliers, throw out false NDBs, delay the aircraft, replace the CVR with recordings that sound like the Polish crew on that particular day (without breaking the chain of custody after pulling the recorder out), and create fog.... If that's the case, we should be very, very, very, afraid.

Or, the crew might have descended through minimums and flew into the side of hill on a very foggy morning.

One of the two happened.

That's because we trust people at the very top of the system in Poland who have got there through a lifetime of work, as opposed to American conspiracy theorists and anti-Russian "nationalists".


Definitely, I mean - if they're capable of doing that towards a country that they don't really care less about (Poland) - what are they capable of doing to the USA or the UK?

oh, these cunning Russians. Using reverse psychology and telling the pilots to go land somewhere else!

Indeed - I mean, not only did they discourage them by stripping the airfield of almost all equipment, but also by telling them to go somewhere else AND inventing fog - they truly are the masters of reverse psychology!

They were going in for landing in the middle of nowhere as far as the warning system is concerned. Of course EGPWS would go crazy and start screaming "Pull Up". They were expecting it to happen, that's why it was ignored.

Would you ignore it if you've descended well past MDA and it starts screaming at you?

If I was sure the landing strip was directly below ahead? Sure. They weren't supposed to descend past MDA without a visual in the first place. They must have seen something, I recon.

I reckon not. Radar altimeter + bad weather + non precision approach = dead pilot.


Minimums for that approach were 100m/1km

Could someone comment on this:
niezalezna.pl/article/show/id/35973

My understanding of Polish is limited, but they are saying that the Yak-40 pilot heard the control tower order the descent of the presidential plane to 50m, is that right?

How credible is this publication?

that is very far fetched. Nobody heard this but the pilot of the yak-40, who disobeyed the Smolensk ATC himself.
He was the one with all the helpful facts about landing he just did, like it was a piece of cake. As with many other "what if's" - if he listened to the ATC and diverted, the TU-154 would not have that "they landed, so can we" hanging over their heads...

Judging from other stories, the publication is definitely not pro-Russian, no other responsible media seems to be picking this up.

The Russian ATC knew the Polish plane was too low and that's the end of story. They did very little to guide in light of the weird terrain.

I thought they were too high?

Yeah, they smoked a little too much but, geographically, were too low ;) When the Nepalese Black bong set in, the autopilot went on. It's the untold story ;0 ;)

I know sure what happened. President ordered the pilot to land, though he was aware of that the weather was not good enough. Pilot had to listen. Had he another chance? If you were pilot and if president said "land down", could you object?

Russians were aware of the bad weather and there was a risk. But, they just watched, maybe, even helped on the incident conditions by equipment things. President's politics were not good for Russia? But, this can't be called as sabotage of Russia. Even if Russians did nothing, accident could happen as the weather and the land were really risky. It is mainly Presidental error.

After all, president could order the pilot "don't land down" and pilot would have to listen to this order, maybe, even happily as there was his life too under the risk. Presidents are forgetting they are not presidents everywhere. When they are in plane they are just simple humans and president of plane is pilot. When it is about life, there is no difference between a president and a pilot. Saying it as error of pilot only is unfair to pilot.

No, I was serious. According to the transcript, weren't they about 50 or so meters about the proper flight path? and then they suddenly went down very sharply?

Is there a proper source where all the details are summarized appropriately?


Quite true.

It's not - I can't recall the exact situation with Gazeta Polska, but it's a fringe loony publication.


It's not reported anywhere else, so it's likely to be more nonsense - probably designed to add fuel to the "LECH WAS MURDERED" claims favoured by people who think that they're helping Jarek win the election.


Well, they knew at least 1-2 seconds before issuing the Horizon command. Given the limitations of the radar installed at Smolensk, it seems rather unlikely that they knew earlier.


Why do they need to guide? The plane was cleared to 100m, no lower.


We won't know until they release the GPS track of the plane. There are some very credible theories about the path of the plane - but it's impossible to say with 100% certainty based on the cockpit voice recorder. We do know that at the "outer beacon" - they were 100m too high.

That's an interesting article.

The article is correct that there are too many inconsistencies with the reports of this tragedy to say that it can all be simplistically explained as because of "pilot error". Like the article said, the Russian transcripts could well be counterfeited.

According to top German experts, they think there was definitely foul play that went on. They report that the plane was given false data from the Smolensk airport. At least by the airport navigation signals that went out to the arriving plane.