EU confirms it will take action against Poland over court reforms

Yup, I've read that too. That means that you have to act in everyone's interest, not just your political interests.

So, in other words, you are duty bound to defend the rights of every Polish citizen regardless of where they stand politically. If the police are assaulting a far-left wing anarchist, it's your obligation to step in and defend that person from further assault, as it's in the common good to protect Polish citizens from unlawful assault from the police.

Would you defend an anarchist from police brutality?

Absolutely. That's how a democracy works - the majority of citizen voters decide. That's why you have to respect the Polish citizens' wishes even if you don't like them. Nasz kraj, nasze zasady. If we want Christ as our King, that's our choice. If we want marriage to only be between man and woman, that's Polish peoples' choice.


Not at all. He broke that law and the Police police have been given the authority by Polish society to hogtie and throw Antifa types into police vans and charge them for obstruction. Furthermore, anarchists tend to participate in activities and groups detrimental to Polish institutions so as a Polish citizen it is my duty to protect the country from disloyal enemies who seek to undermine the country and society.


Of course not. I would instead buy the cop a steak dinner or give him money or even my watch as a present. How do I know those people were even Polish citizens? They did not have authorization or the necessary permits to march let alone block a rally of 60k people. They attempted, although failed, to obstruct a peaceful demonstration and created a public nuisance. The police promptly did their job to the few dozen antifa losers so the 60k patriots can continue marching in peace. No Molotov cocktails, no beatings, no people driving others over, no broken windows, etc. That's because the right is peaceful as long as it is not provoked.

The police, military, security apparatus, government, MFA, MIA, etc is given the authority by Polish citizens, society, and constitution to hogtie people, raid offices, and investigate those who they believe are engaged in actions detrimental to the country and society.

So if the majority of Polish citizens decide that, for example, those who obtained a foreign citizenship should be immediately stripped of Polish citizenship and their property taken away from them, would you support it? Or would you protest against it? I certainly would protest against it, but would you?


Even if the far-left anarchist is merely protesting peacefully?

Or are you relying on some vague "danger to Poland" to justify excluding people from the protections offered by the Constitution?

But please, tell me - how would you feel if those same institutions did the same to your family? Let's say the next government decides that your family is a danger to Poland, and you see your cousins being treated in this way. Will you support it, or will you protest?

Remember when there was that incident of a muslim dude stabbing a polish guy and killing him? The cops stood aside while our boys promptly destroyed and torched a Muslims' shop for stabbing a Polish citizen. The cops did nothing lol they stood a block away and Polish women cheered on as the boys destroyed his kebab shop.

A short video is online and it shows some vandalism but doesn't show his place being totally torched for what he did:

youtube.com/watch?v=fjonuL5U4b8&t=91s
youtube.com/watch?v=kgrjsuAJaH0


I don't participate in protests because I have better things to do. Polish constitution allows for dual citizenship so this is a moot point.

My family and I don't antagonize Polish instutitions or try to subvert Polish society regardless of whether the left or right is in charge. We run our respective businesses, pay our taxes, go to work, teach 1st graders, work in the field, make iron and metal fences and gates, rent property, vote for who we want (we have both PO and PiS supporters in my family - mostly PO from mom's, PiS/PO mix from Dad's), and support patriotic organizations, the military, go to restaurants, clubs, stores, etc. Plus, even PO is by western standards considered pretty center-right. Majority of PO supports are also against migrants and gay marriage - not as high as PiS supporters according to CBOS but they are a majority (but over 50%)

They did not have a permit, they ILLEGALLY gathered and tried to block a march. They did not march alone or in another area - no, they instead attempted to block the 60k marching. If they were in a different area, had the proper permits, did not antagonize anyone, I'm sure they wouldn't have been arrested. However, they gathered illegally and tried to form a human chain to prevent the NOP guys and the other 60k from marching down the route that was planned wall ahead of time.


That's not for me to decide - that's for the police, government, MIA, MFA, etc.

Also, you can only lose your citizenship if you lied on your application, belong to subversive groups and are charged with treason/espionage/etc, which is kind of tricky because a person would probably serve a sentence if convicted but strictly speaking the PL constitution and government state that generally only a person can renounce their citizenship.


Yes, that's how a democracy and a majority vote works. If such a referendum were held and the majority of Poles wanted that it's their decision - not foreigner residents or outsiders. Being a Polish citizen gives you voting rights to decide certain matters. If a person wants to have a say in such things they should get Polish citizenship. And even once they do and participate in our voting system, they must still respect the wishes for the majority of voters.

I was against the abortion and a few other things PiS tried to push through - however they at least listened to their countrymen and corrected course, dropped the abortion changes, and made concessions on the court changes (although it looks like just a few days ago they pushed some more changes).

In the same way, PO was in power and Poles were furious when they kowtowed to the EU's migrant quotas. PiS ran against that and campaigned on it hard. That's one of the many reasons why they swept clean in the elections. I liked a lot of things PO did, but not everything like how they viewed Polish citizens' wages, their kowtow to the EU, and generally being out of touch elitist EU ass kissers who got a taste of a few millions and then forgot about where they come from and their countrymen.

I'm not talking about them, just generic far-left anarchists. Polish ones - would you support their right of peaceful assembly and so on?


See, we have a completely different idea of democracy. For me, there are fundamental rights, and you cannot just take them away based on a thin majority.

Germany even has it enshrined in their Basic Law that there are certain articles that cannot be revoked regardless of what the people vote for. I agree with this - hence why I would never agree to anything that took away your basic rights as a citizen, even if the majority wanted it.

@Dirk diggler
To leftards Democracy is when things happen the way THEY want. Thing is that if you support Democracy as a whole then you MUST also accept the will of majority even when it's against your own. If you don't then you're simply a hipocrite like the leftards in Poland.

Actually, that's not the principle of democracy.

Democracy has never been about solely the will of the majority. Equality is also a major part of it, which is why the majority cannot just impose their will on the minority regardless.

I can't remember any government that wasn't criticised by Poles.
All of them won in the elections.
And honestly, I don't get why people wouldn't be allowed to criticise any government. They get paid from our taxes.

It is about the votes of the majority.


Of course - the equalities enshrined by the constitution for Polish citizens. There is nothing in the constitution which says that Polish citizens and expat residents/migrants have the same rights with voting and other things. Of course Poles cant simply appropriate some foreigners' house, car, etc., but a PL citizen has more rights in the eyes of our constitution, Polish society, the laws and the courts than a non-citizen.


No they can't. What bugs the British far leftists is that Polish is a conservative Christian society (as evidenced by the government in charge, nov 11 march, CBOS polls showing majority of Poles reject migrants, gay marriage, etc. etc). They're upset that they can't change the society to conform to their far left commie ideology. The question becomes though why did they go to a country that is poorer than UK knowing that the conservative society is the opposite of their beliefs in the first place? They clearly don't like the fact that PiS in in charge, the Nov 11 marches gathered 60k, that Poles reject migrants and gay marriage, that foreign radio stations are fined for being disloyal, and that PO have 1/3 to 1/2 the support of PiS, yet most of them can't really do much about it because they don't speak Polish fluently, are residents and not Polish citizens so a homeless drunk dude has a bigger stake in the country, but they take it out here.

Still leftard Poles have same rights like me. They vote is worth as much as mine. They just can't accept their lose in elections therefore they are against one of the fundaments of Democracy. Hypocrites.

It seems to me too many of you guys here focus too much on this British-American/left-right war. It's like nothing really matters. The same arguments are repeated over and over again and it doesn't matter what politicians can or should do for the citizens but who wins the silly argument.

PiS won the elections. Two years ago. As any other government they should respect the constitution and the citizens. It doesn't matter what the surveys say. There's still a lot of time left till the next elections.

They're the government of both those who voted for them and those who didn't. Both of these groups have a right to criticise them if that's how they feel.

The previous can't be totally uncritical mainly because they trusted them. The latter because they still have a free will and hopefully all Poles understand how terrible it was to live in a totalitarian country.

The media can't be influenced by the government. We had it, too. Mind you, even the US criticised fining TVN for broadcasting anti-government demonstrations.

Just a post by me -a woman. I do apologise for voicing my opinion. In my defense I'll say a baked a cake today.

The worst of that is IINM they didn't even point out what was wrong (they didn't/couldn't point to specific things broadcast - they just didn't like the tone) Very dangerous precedent.

Thank you Ironside.


That's "lap dog" Ironside - keep the lab(rador) dog out of this. It's a fine animal.

What EU doing is practically rape of Poland. EU deflowering Poland.

I guess it is Andrzej Mleczko :-)

This is actually one of the main reasons why the left annoys me so much. Conservatives and/or right wingers, for the most part, are honest about how they would like their country to look and what they don't want.

Leftists have forever protested right-wing 'dictatorships,' crying that people should be free to do what they want, say what they want, think what they want etc. Yet, in many western countries, you can't do that. Unless you repeat their left-wing drivel.

The new electoral reform law I mentioned in a previous post, also looks set to pass. It was approved by the lower house of the Sejm today. It's pretty scary stuff, giving PIS huge control over elections in Poland. Read the details here:

ft.com/content/f3e1a81a-e19c-11e7-8f9f-de1c2175f5ce

your welcome D1.


Do I need to repeat myself all the time? I know - I have dyslexia, not the worst but not mild either. I make spelling errors in Polish and not because I don't know how to spell.


eh, not really!

Awesome. Hopefully the conservatives remain in power and ban any foreign financing of opposition parties and Soros affiliated ngos.

if it's not the will of majority then it's the will of minority simple as that - ergo minorities rule in your democracy - how is it democracy actually then?

there is equality in the majority rule - everyone has equally one vote

Rational democracy limits the will the majority from being implemented by balancing it with the rule of law (equal for everyone) and the idea of natural (god given if you prefer) rights.

If a majority voted to enslave a visible minority then rational democracy would set the vote aside as it violates the rights of the minority.

Pretty much exactly that. The Germans got it right with their Basic Law, in which certain articles are inviolable and can only be enhanced, not decreased or removed.

the US constitution has similar provisions (though I wish the bill of rights were in the main body rather than ammendments). Interestingly the US constitution can only get bigger, once an ammendement is passed it's still part of the constitution even if it's revoked by a later part (so the 18th ammendment if still in the constituion even though it's repealed by the 21st)

So in US constitutional theory, a potential new amendment could repeal the 21st, which would have the effect of enabling the 18th?

It's an interesting way of doing it, but I think it's actually neater than the mess that we've seen in Hungary with Orban constantly changing the Constitution that he was responsible for creating in the first place.

I think it's a question of system of law, the constitution of a common law country will tend to be short (as in the US) but in a civil law country (Poland most of Europe) it has to be a lot longer and cover a lot of situations like are left out in common law as they're handled elsewhere. Also it has to be more.... changeable - and the longer and more involved the constitution (or basic law) and the easier it is to change the less relevance it has for citizens.

US citizens treat the constitution almost like a sacred text - hardly anyone in Poland cares about the Polish constitution at all....

Its not as simple as saying everyone has one equal vote - in Poland many votes can be wasted on parties that dont make the threshhold. In the US then your vote has different weight if you are in a swing state.

Winning an election and implementing election promises like the bank tax is fine. However things like the media law and the takeover of the election committee were not mentioned.

Very good, it was beautiful when trash like zlew didn't make it in the last election.

Resistance to EU and preservation of Sarmatian (ie Slavic) world should be priority of Polish patriots

Look at reward to Germany for unconditional loyalty to Romans (ie Brussels) >>

An interesting development here which demonstrates how you can't operate in isolation within the EU. An Irish High Court judge has felt it necessary to go the European court of Justice to request a ruling on Poland's Rule of Law situation as it is apparently compromising an extradition case. Basically the Irish High Court is reluctant to extradite the guy as they are not satisfied about his right to a fair trial in Poland which is pretty shocking really. The case will be argued next week which coincides with the 20 March deadline set by the EU for Poland's response to the rule of law concerns.

irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/high-court-judge-seeks-eu-ruling-on-effect-of-polish-law-changes-1.3424530