Tusk would sell Poland out in an instant and this is the view of many Poles I have talked to. Mel Gibson, LOL. An American-Aussie, not a Scot.
WHY DOES POLAND BUY GAS FROM RUSSIA?
Tusk would sell Poland out in an instant and this is the view of many Poles
Well, we are on average smart people and yes he would.
I have talked to. Mel Gibson, LOL.
Did he forgive you for betraying him? Is he on beer terms with Robert de Bruce again? If not then you're still bloody traitors.
szkotja2007 27 | 1497
17 Oct 2009 / #33
because of Russian gas deposits dwindling
What about in Russia - Barents, Yamal peninsula, Sakhalin etc etc
Russian influence - Iraq, Iran, Africa etc etc
What would Europe do if Russia chose to sell their West Siberian gas to China instead ?
Edit - Together Russia and Iran have nearly 20% of the worlds proven oil and gas reserves. Still a lot of drilling to be done.
What would Europe do if Russia chose to sell their West Siberian gas to China instead ?
Russia wont do that, Europe is ready to pay money China is not, not to mention the political leverage, the only reason why Europe even talks with Russia is the fossils, Russia is economically, politically and militarily pathetically weak but it still has a strategic resource in the form of its fossil fuels so your question will never happen, ever.
What about in Russia - Barents, Yamal peninsula, Sakhalin etc etc
We dont know, the problem with Russia is that if my theory is indeed correct and they have prognosed that they will run out of juice in lets say 20 years there's no way for us to know, all the can do is make conclusions based on their actions and their actions indicate they're starting to streamline exports via legal and illegal ways.
Russian influence - Iraq, Iran, Africa etc etc
Russia has no influence in Iraq, little capability of projecting any more influence in Africa then it already has, but Iran is a different story, Russia would probably consider nuking Israel and US forces if there was an invasion.
Edit - Together Russia and Iran have nearly 20% of the worlds proven oil and gas reserves. Still a lot of drilling to be done.
Most of whats left is in areas difficult to reach, like deep ocean bed, Russia and Iran sit on deposits that are cheap to extract, this economic feasability is more crucial then the existence of resource itself. Poland has enough gas to supply us for 70 years but we dont extract it due to high cost.
Russia wont do that, Europe is ready to pay money China is not, not to mention the political leverage, the only reason why Europe even talks with Russia is the fossils, Russia is economically, politically and militarily pathetically weak but it still has a strategic resource in the form of its fossil fuels so your question will never happen, ever.
If China were willing to pay the same as or more for fossil fuel, I am sure Russia would consider it. China is a rich nation, built on the backs of American consumption. Are they not the biggest holders of US debt?
Most of whats left is in areas difficult to reach
Poland has enough gas to supply us for 70 years but we dont extract it due to high cost.
Look at the Canadian Oil Sands (tar sands) At $40 US per barrel, it made no sense to extract it, because of the processing costs. But at $70, there is lots of money in it. And business is booming. There will be a point when it is economically attractive to go to these difficult areas and start extracting it.
If China were willing to pay the same as or more for fossil fuel
Which it is not, Chinese economy is strong mostly on debts owned, it still doesnt have that much of an actual capital base (only 52% of what US has and about 41% of EU) and they're still developing across the board, they cannot afford to pay through their ears.
Are they not the biggest holders of US debt?
Question is will they be able to cash it in, US is preparing for something, personally i think they'll start something with Iran that draws China in and allows for US to illegaly bail out (for example bankruptcy or change of currency).
There will be a point when it is economically attractive to go to these difficult areas and start extracting it.
Yes, when neccesity drives price, but at that point we''re talking world war since many countries like Russia will be unwilling to relinquish their power status or face economic collapse and will try to take areas that still hold some resources, so at that point it wont really matter who has what.
szkotja2007 27 | 1497
17 Oct 2009 / #37
will never happen, ever.
oil pipeline linking Russia’s far east with northeast China is set to start operations late next year, state media reports. Construction of the pipeline, slated to run from Skovorodino to Daqing and is projected to carry 15 million tonnes of crude oil annually between 2011 and 2030. - China Business News 2009
if my theory is indeed correct
I would say its wrong, the proven reserves will still be producing for decades.
Russia has no influence in Iraq,
October 13th 2009 - Lukoil ( Russia ) agree terms to start drilling in West Qurna-1 ( proven crude oil reserves of 8.6 billion barrels ).
difficult to reach, like deep ocean bed
Nah, its the geo political situation that is the most important factor.
it still doesnt have that much of an actual capital base
I might disagree with you here.
China 6th largest holder of Gold
HONG KONG (MarketWatch) -- China has boosted its gold reserves to 1,054 metric tons, according to a Friday report by Xinhua News Agency, which cited Hu Xiaolian, head of the State Administration of Foreign Exchange.
The increase makes China the world's fifth-largest holder of gold, just ahead of Switzerland, and among the six nations plus the International Monetary Fund that have reserves of more than 1,000 metric tons.
Hu said that China's gold reserves had risen by 454 metric tons since 2003 and that the total was being reported to the IMF per the organization's rules.
The increase makes China the world's fifth-largest holder of gold, just ahead of Switzerland, and among the six nations plus the International Monetary Fund that have reserves of more than 1,000 metric tons.
Hu said that China's gold reserves had risen by 454 metric tons since 2003 and that the total was being reported to the IMF per the organization's rules.
Worlds biggest foreign currency reserves
July 15 (Bloomberg) -- China's foreign-exchange reserves, the world's biggest, topped $2 trillion for the first time as the nation's economic recovery prompted overseas investors to pump money into stocks and property.
The reserves rose a record $178 billion in the second quarter to $2.132 trillion, the People's Bank of China said today on its Web site. That dwarfs a $7.7 billion gain in the previous three months.
The reserves rose a record $178 billion in the second quarter to $2.132 trillion, the People's Bank of China said today on its Web site. That dwarfs a $7.7 billion gain in the previous three months.
I wouldn't underestimate the Chinese financial picture. The government keeps a great percentage of the inflows of cash in their coffers, regardless of who makes what.
Question is will they be able to cash it in,
Maybe not dollar for dollar, but I am sure they will play hardball (financial or otherwise) if push comes to shove.
I might disagree with you here.
Check GDP levels.
China 6th largest holder of Gold
Its not going to touch them though, especially not for fossils.
I wouldn't underestimate the Chinese financial picture. The government keeps a great percentage of the inflows of cash in their coffers, regardless of who makes what.
Thats one reason but you have to realise these guys have the most spongy economy out there, the resource consumption is probably the highest and definitely the least efficient, i'm going to have to research that but off the bat i'm pretty sure with their rate of development only a fraction of thse funds is freed up for potential purchases.
Maybe not dollar for dollar, but I am sure they will play hardball (financial or otherwise) if push comes to shove.
If push comes to shove US can just declare bankruptcy and China will do what? Of course this would ruin worldwide economy but if we assume US is bankrupt and its getting there pretty fast the US gov might just not care anymore.
oil pipeline linking Russia’s far east with northeast China is set to start operations late next year, state media reports. Construction of the pipeline, slated to run from Skovorodino to Daqing and is projected to carry 15 million tonnes of crude oil annually between 2011 and 2030. - China Business News 2009
That proves they want to supply China not that they want to shift markets.
October 13th 2009 - Lukoil ( Russia ) agree terms to start drilling in West Qurna-1 ( proven crude oil reserves of 8.6 billion barrels ).
With USA approval naturally, which drives point home, USA is the sole controller of Iraq and its resources, this might have been payday for leniency in case of Iran or trying to give Russia carrot enough that it doesnt act when US/Israel nuke Iraq, the point is its not an independent move but a US approved action.
Check GDP levels
4th in the world. Don't forget, that wealth is not necessarily distributed to the population at large. Also take into consideration the value of those goods historically produced - 20 years ago, crayons and some small toys. Today, appliances and televisions. Tomorrow exported automobiles. Definitely a growth trend.
these guys have the most spongy economy out there
Yes, highly dependent on demand from North America and Europe. Although I agree with your point as to efficiency in their economy, they are smart people, and will catch up on things like efficiency improvements, lean manufacturing and cost of quality.
US can just declare bankruptcy and China will do what?
Go on a shopping spree with all that gold. They also have a great deal of Euro currency in the bank. When US gets cheap - convert Euros into dollars and buy some property. It is happening in Canada right now. For years, the Can$ was anywhere from $0.62 to 0.85 US. Now it is near par, and Canadians are buying up US real estate in nice warm places. The housing bubble in the states also helped.
Go on a shopping spree with all that gold.
With a collapsing economy? What guarantee they have US is not going to nationalize their purchases after they get the gold? Thats a high risk operation the Chinese would be getting into.
WHY DOES POLAND BUY GAS FROM RUSSIA?
Because the gas is in Russia.
George8600 10 | 630
20 Oct 2009 / #43
jajajaja
You don't know about Gazprom do you? At least the Poles have it off good. Look at the Ukranians, they get theirs shut off a few times every year (usually during the freezing winters), their prices sky rocket, and the Kremlin calls them thieves to the world media.
It's because the Gazprom has the vast majority of gas in Europe and especially Eastern Europe; as for the little that exists OUT of Russia in Europe, Gazprom either fully or partially owns the gas lines, source, and company. It's called Russian style capitalism.
You don't know about Gazprom do you? At least the Poles have it off good. Look at the Ukranians, they get theirs shut off a few times every year (usually during the freezing winters), their prices sky rocket, and the Kremlin calls them thieves to the world media.
It's because the Gazprom has the vast majority of gas in Europe and especially Eastern Europe; as for the little that exists OUT of Russia in Europe, Gazprom either fully or partially owns the gas lines, source, and company. It's called Russian style capitalism.
WHY DOES POLAND BUY GAS FROM RUSSIA?
Poland doing bussines with Russia
their biggest enemy since, oh I dunno, the beginning of time
Did you ask them ["russian pigs" or "ruskies" I mean] if they knew about it? :)
Running into that kind of threads Sasha understands why he doesn't post here that much anymore...
Come on, this is much of fun to expose from time to time ignorance of some people posting here. If wiser posters wont ridicule their activity in the forum then they will simply post more and more BS. You are dis-encouraging factor for many. :)
Liquefied natural gas
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_natural_gas
I can't find the news article but I know Poland has signed NUMEROUS contracts with countries such as Qatar for example to import liquefied natural gas. I also can't find the article I read which was talking about Poland frantically trying to finish a massive liquefied natural gas refinery in the north (near Gdansk). So they can begin excepting shipments from oh I dunno..... other countries that ACTUALLY want to do business with them, instead of playing Russian Roulette (no pun intended).
I know old habits die hard buy if Poland follows through and gets nuclear power plants installed/up and running in the next 20 years, people could begin using electricity for more things as it would be cheaper. Thus not having to rely on Russian/foreign natural gas.... And when I mean "use electricity for more thing", I mean a stove instead of natural gas. I know electricity is expensive in Poland most parts of Europe and natural gas has just been more common. But just like here in Canada, and I am sure across Europe, energy monopolies are everywhere.
Just in case you were wondering the majority of houses in Canada are heated by natural gas, and a good portion of stoves use electricity not natural gas.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_natural_gas
I can't find the news article but I know Poland has signed NUMEROUS contracts with countries such as Qatar for example to import liquefied natural gas. I also can't find the article I read which was talking about Poland frantically trying to finish a massive liquefied natural gas refinery in the north (near Gdansk). So they can begin excepting shipments from oh I dunno..... other countries that ACTUALLY want to do business with them, instead of playing Russian Roulette (no pun intended).
I know old habits die hard buy if Poland follows through and gets nuclear power plants installed/up and running in the next 20 years, people could begin using electricity for more things as it would be cheaper. Thus not having to rely on Russian/foreign natural gas.... And when I mean "use electricity for more thing", I mean a stove instead of natural gas. I know electricity is expensive in Poland most parts of Europe and natural gas has just been more common. But just like here in Canada, and I am sure across Europe, energy monopolies are everywhere.
Just in case you were wondering the majority of houses in Canada are heated by natural gas, and a good portion of stoves use electricity not natural gas.
I guess if the Ukrainians would start paying the same amount of money that Poles do, then their gas might not get cut off. There are plenty of sources that Ukraine could get gas from without ever touching Gazprom pipes.
With the new contract, it's pretty straightforward. Ukraine pays market gas prices, Russia pays market transit prices. win-win.
With the new contract, it's pretty straightforward. Ukraine pays market gas prices, Russia pays market transit prices. win-win.
joepilsudski 26 | 1387
19 Dec 2009 / #49
WHY DOES POLAND BUY GAS FROM RUSSIA?
Because, in Poland, there is an extreme bean shortage, and, therefor, Poland has trouble producing it's own gas...However, the recent cabbage harvests have been substantial, so this may help solve the problem.
Because, in Poland, there is an extreme bean shortage, and, therefor, Poland has trouble producing it's own gas...However, the recent cabbage harvests have been substantial, so this may help solve the problem.
PlasticPole 7 | 2641
19 Dec 2009 / #50
I live in Canada and wonder why Poland get their gas imports from Russia- their biggest enemy since, oh I dunno, the beginning of time! I remember a couple of years ago the Ruski's turned off the supply for a while (which affected Germany too). What is Poland doing to diversify it's supply?
Well, it might have something to do with the fact that Russia is so damn big, the biggest country in the world, in fact, and thus, have a lot of natural resources like N.G. They sell it because they have a surplus. Many countries buy it.
ConstantineK 26 | 1298
19 Dec 2009 / #51
gołąbki and bigosy
Fart it out
Poland could become major gas supplier
upi.com/Business_News/2010/04/05/Poland-could-become-major-gas-supplier/UPI-12281270495487/
WARSAW
Poland, April 5 (UPI) -- Oil and gas experts predict Poland will become a major natural gas supplier with enough reserves to make it self-sufficient in the near future.
One firm, Wood Mackenzie, estimates Poland has 48 trillion cubic feet of reserves in areas deemed unconventional but accessible through an extraction technique developed in the United States that now produces 50 percent of the U.S. natural gas output.
The technique of hydraulic fracturing allows energy companies to extract natural gas from tight rock formations, The Times of London Online reported Monday.
upi.com/Business_News/2010/04/05/Poland-could-become-major-gas-supplier/UPI-12281270495487/
WARSAW
Poland, April 5 (UPI) -- Oil and gas experts predict Poland will become a major natural gas supplier with enough reserves to make it self-sufficient in the near future.
One firm, Wood Mackenzie, estimates Poland has 48 trillion cubic feet of reserves in areas deemed unconventional but accessible through an extraction technique developed in the United States that now produces 50 percent of the U.S. natural gas output.
The technique of hydraulic fracturing allows energy companies to extract natural gas from tight rock formations, The Times of London Online reported Monday.
WHY DOES POLAND BUY GAS FROM RUSSIA?
Because China is not selling it to Poland ...yet...???
One firm, Wood Mackenzie, estimates Poland has 48 trillion cubic feet of reserves in areas deemed unconventional but accessible through an extraction technique developed in the United States that now produces 50 percent of the U.S. natural gas output.
Enough to supply the EU for nearly 2 years!
Yea, I'm not seeing a lot of export there...
I live in Canada and wonder why Poland get their gas imports from Russia- their biggest enemy since, oh I dunno, the beginning of time! I remember a couple of years ago the Ruski's turned off the supply for a while (which affected Germany too). What is Poland doing to diversify it's supply?
where else could poland get gas? russia has it and none else in europe does..
TheGoodPeter
8 May 2010 / #56
Thread attached on merging:
100 billion gas business deal between Tusk and Putin: now you understand "Crash"
h t t p : / / coto2.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/poland-russia-gas-deals-plane-crashes-a nd-political-assassinations/
Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk is set to seal a key gas deal with Russia's Gazprom days after the death of opponents to the contract - including Polish President Lech Kaczynski - in a mysterious plane crash in Smolensk, Russia, reports Polskaweb.
Under the contract worth an estimated 100 billion dollars - the biggest business deal in the history of Poland - Poland is to increase its imports of Russian gas.
The contract to buy gas from Gazprom until 2037 will make Poland 100% dependent on Russian gas for the next 28 years in spite of the announcement of the discovery of huge gas reserves in Poland in April just before the memorial service in Katyn, Smolensk.
h t t p : / / birdflu666.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/was-the-polish-president-killed-ov er-landmark-gas-deal/
100 billion gas business deal between Tusk and Putin: now you understand "Crash"
h t t p : / / coto2.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/poland-russia-gas-deals-plane-crashes-a nd-political-assassinations/
Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk is set to seal a key gas deal with Russia's Gazprom days after the death of opponents to the contract - including Polish President Lech Kaczynski - in a mysterious plane crash in Smolensk, Russia, reports Polskaweb.
Under the contract worth an estimated 100 billion dollars - the biggest business deal in the history of Poland - Poland is to increase its imports of Russian gas.
The contract to buy gas from Gazprom until 2037 will make Poland 100% dependent on Russian gas for the next 28 years in spite of the announcement of the discovery of huge gas reserves in Poland in April just before the memorial service in Katyn, Smolensk.
h t t p : / / birdflu666.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/was-the-polish-president-killed-ov er-landmark-gas-deal/
American technology to produce shale gas is unleashing a scramble for drilling rights in Poland, where experts believe vast reserves of unconventional gas exist that could help to weaken Russia's grip on Europe's energy supplies.
business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article7087585.ece
Platforma Obywatelska and ex-communists prefer to make us dependent on Russian gas however. They're just doing their job. They just have a different vision of idependent Poland. PiS was such an obstacle.
American technology to produce shale gas is unleashing a scramble for drilling rights in Poland, where experts believe vast reserves of unconventional gas exist that could help to weaken Russia’s grip on Europe’s energy supplies.
That about says it all... as if the US - with its own vast quantities of drillable shale - is looking out for the (business) interests of Poland. Right... ;)
AdamKadmon 2 | 494
8 May 2010 / #59
Platforma Obywatelska and ex-communists prefer to make us dependent on Russian gas
You have found a universal method to deal with all "political matters". There's method in that madness.
delphiandomine 86 | 17823
8 May 2010 / #60
Platforma Obywatelska and ex-communists prefer to make us dependent on Russian gas however.
From your link -
Mr Fanning pointed out that the Polish Government, which is keen to diversify its energy supplies from a reliance on Russia, has been strongly supportive of the programme.