You're talking about bureaucratic negotiations while I'm talking about public perception. The harder the Brexit landing then the worse for the EU as it will be very easy to blame bad results on EU inflexibility (no matter what you think the reality is).
Brexit was a warning (which the EU has ignored) and a challenge (for imaginative and creative solutions) which the EU is failing.
I actually support the EU but not one that's involved in never-ending ever closer union. What percentage of EU citizens want ever closer union (and ever more nitpicky regulations created far from the reality of those who have to deal with them?)
It's easier for The UK to find new countries to buy from
Countries such as? There are not many advanced economies outside of the EU to choose from, and those who are (basically the USA, Kanada, South Korea, Japan and Australia) are a large Ocean away.
You're talking about bureaucratic negotiations
Matters like free movement are no mere bureaucratic talking points. This is not something some bureaucrats in Bruessels want to uphold, but all of the other EU member states. The problem is that the Brexiteers subscribe to the notion that it all comes down to Bruessels being punitive, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
Australia is seeking to make an agreement with eu not uk. Our right wing government is pretty much despised now and i dont think they will return. They are the ones who like royals and uk and have a bunch of fossils voting for them. The other side of government wants republic and to toss the queens picture into the bin, like most of us who are not ancient. Australia has so much more to gain by trading with eu rather then tiny uk, who make almost nothing. I would not count on us, just more propaganda spun by brexit morons who are just plainly dumb. But like brexit we also have to wait for this. Both events will be next year from the looks of things, not that long.
American food standarts and many asian are so far below eu its not funny. More lies. Your car manufacturers are staying, not foreign owned? More bs. Yeah we sell wine from hete. When you idiots slide down the gurgler i will be on here saying....derrr. basically every single thing a brexiteer says can be proven to be wrong to anyone but a brexiteer. You have been brainwashed. A poinless pack of lies.
Britain Does have a car industry - however Jaguars and land Rovers are not really a practical choice for most of the people that voted for Brexit.
When it comes to small cars then all of the people are producing Britain now are thinking of pulling out due to the disruption to their supply chain.
As for food then Britain will have to import food - this is been reality for more than 100 years due to the density of the population.
You are truly a fantasist if you think that this is not going to have a significant negative effect. There might be political reasons for leaving me but there are no economic advantages at all.
Yes lets hear the advantages i will start it off:. Take back control: lose all control of europe to everyone else and have no further control there. Go from head of table to nothing. Hows the 350m a week for the nhs going lol? Hows boris the best fm bozo ever now. A disgrace at the very least, international laughing stock. Hows the united kingdom going, the least united and totally devided, its not the eu who will disappear its the 'united kingdom". Your farming sector, how much does it get from the eu? Lol. The infrastructure projects eu paid for, they are going around removing those signs, take back control bullshit some moron that you funded it. What eu person will buy a car made in uk with extra tariffs and having germans there? Name a few Gimmy some benefits, convince me.
If we get a clean Brexit it will be us Brits laughing in 10 years time.
Why will you be laughing? Almost every single country has demanded concessions, some of them quite significant (for instance, India won't do a trade deal unless the UK agrees to a significant amount of residence permits for Indians, or the Americans have demanded access to the NHS and other large governmental organisations while also demanding that UK food safety laws are loosened) - where's the 'win' there?
What you call "clean" is in fact incredibly chaotic - millions of people in legal limbo, huge holdups at the border, a further crash in the pound, massive areas of regulation needing to be rewritten and all to the background music of a weaker economy and the biggest companies either leaving or contracting.
The EU might break up but does not look that way at the moment - I guess the other 27 countries (it is not just Germany and France) will find a way to plug the UKs 9 billion hole - it actually works out at 20 euro a head for each of the remaining 450m EU citizens so it is hardly an insurmountable obstacle. Again this is a Daily Express fantasy.
chaotic - millions of people in legal limbo, huge holdups at the border, a further crash in the pound
Well, I'm quite knowledgable about border issues. Let's talk specifically about Dover and the Channel Tunnel, because it's easiest to understand. Right now, there's an agreement in place for immigration/police checks to take place on departure rather than on arrival. Nothing will change there, because this is an Anglo-French agreement outside of the European Union structures. However, the agreement (officially the Sangatte Protocol) - does not mention anything about Customs controls, because they had already been abolished by the time the agreement was signed into law by the UK and France in 1993. What controls do exist are conducted on arrival, rather than on departure.
So, Brexit happens, and so Customs controls are introduced as the UK is now outside the Customs Union. Suddenly, you're going to have a huge amount of freight facing controls in both Dover and Calais - while there's room for those controls at Eurotunnel, there's no room in Calais or Dover for them. The whole system in those two ports revolves getting trucks in and onto ferries as quickly as possible, with Customs checks only being intelligence-led rather than systematic. What will happen? Chaos. There's no room in either Calais or Dover to accommodate all the trucks awaiting Customs controls, and the only realistic solution for the UK is to simply do random checks on trucks, as now. As there's no room in Calais, then trucks will have to queue in the UK until there's space - which means more chaos.
Littles Law in action - small increases in processing transactions can quickly lead to huge backlogs of trucks - anybody who remembers Slubice at holiday time pre 2004 will know what is in store for Britain. At times they stretched for 30km
Already Non Schengen borders are getting very busy - The one in Warsaw airport is very chaotic now at mid morning and early evening. Some British airports are horrible too - had awful times recently waiting in passport queues in Luton and manchester
Exactly. Even if checks are simply a paperwork check, quick visual check of loads and waved on, it's still going to stretch both Calais and Dover. The Swiss border takes about 10-15 minutes for trucks to clear if everything is in order and there's no queue, so the same can be expected on the UK border, except with the limited space, of course there will be queues.
I know the queues in Słubice that you're talking about - queues of 30-40 hours were normal in the early 2000's because the capacity simply wasn't there to process so many trucks.
Right on every count Wizard. The old, the entitled and the lazy have ****** the rest of us over. Ashamed to be British.
Well, I'm quite knowledgable about border issues.
So am I. From my experience, with the way they treated my missus in communist times, it's patrolled by a bunch of scummy kunts who deserve nothing less than a good battering.
This bunch of pessimistic,lazy Brits on this forum make me despair...... You are all whingeing and whining like a bunch of old women! Typical socialists..... The UK will be fine......with no deal......economics was never the issue for brexiteers but I must point out that a no deal Brexit will mean tariffs on both sides......but the pound will devalue,offsetting the tariffs to some degree.....however,on The German side,for example it will add an even higher price for their goods.....The Brits just won't by German,if they can`t afford it.......can Germany really afford to lose 70 billion pounds worth of business a year when they have no other market to sell too?....no.
I did say that economics played no part in the Brexit vote,but you chose to ignore that. Poland,Hungary and The Czech Republic will replace The UK as a market for Germany?? You are a dreamer....too many of them are here in The UK and plenty of them are working for me.....none of them have any plans to return home soon.....
Stop pretending economics had no issue in brexit. The ' immigrants came took my job' catchphrase soundbite was used every stinking day by all the frauds. The silly low iq working fails had it as their ' thing'. In every interview with those people they whined how they couldn't get jobs because some Polish bloke took it ( or some other nationality) and every time it was brought up they sighted how the immigrants take lower wages and undervut the brits. Plumbers, electricians, builders and many more. All saying the same thing.
This is why i want you to take your worthless lies and reap the whirlwind. The eu is a coalition of willing countries. The uk an unnatural result of 100s of years of subjugation of the Scots, the Irish just to start but morons pretend its the other way around. The United Kingdom is not united. Nothing like money will show you how unnatural the uk is. My pet popcorn moment will be the moronic welsh who voted out realizing 1/2 their agricultural work is subsidized by the eu. Its all about the money that's why frauds like mogg have started companies to hedge money in the eu, in Ireland. They have the little people fooled. You fell for it.
Btw May is dithering with it all because she knows it and based on 37% of the country voted out she also knows 63% did not.
The ' immigrants came took my job' catchphrase soundbite was used every stinking day by all the frauds.
First, within the EU there is no such thing as 'immigration' there just isn't. there is the 'free movement of peoples' one of the four freedoms.
Why frauds? Polish (and other accession country) migrants were used by British employers to keep wages down, rather similar to the way that Ukrainians are being used in Poland now. Trying to pretend that migrants don't push down wages for the semi-skilled working class is daft.
You can still argue that labor-related migration is a net plus for a society's economy (especially toward the right end of the economic bell curve), but stop trying to pretend there aren't some pretty steep social costs on the left side of the curve.
Uk has sharia courts, no go zones, muslim patrols. We laugh at this every day. Its a country that lost the plot but none of those things come from the eu.
It is a fraud, only 37% of the place voted to leave, this has been described as a majority. Outright fraud. The police said the leave campaign over spent and broke the rules. Fraud. The information given to the public by things such as nhs savings and other issues were a total fantasy. Fraud. The referendum was advisory only when it started but based on 37% of the place turned into law? Fraud. The Scots were told that if they wanted to stay in the eu to not vote independence from uk and once that was over by a tiny margin brexit was called. Fraud.
The tory filth is only propped up by the dup fanatics for a majority who do not represenr NI at all, or their remain vote. Fraud.
They claimed that no companies or business would leave and that the uk can sign trade deals everywhere, try nowhere. More fraud. The criminals have taken over the uk, they are called your ' government'.
Not dreaming - it is already reality - Germany exports to UK, population 66 million are EUR 94 billion. To Poland Czech and Hungary - combined population 61 million they are much bigger - EUR 130 billion. And guess which one is rising faster ?
Now if you were sat in an office in Duesseldorf where would you be focusing your efforts ?
Anyway you have conceded the economic arguments are non existent so now maybe tell us the political benefits and when they will happen ?
Maf, of course only the people that vote count. What will make this one a case study for centuries to come is that it is a one time vote that the winners had no accountability for implementing. Another stress is that most taxpayers both individual and corporate voted heavily to remain and now have to pay for a fiasco foisted on them by the old and the the poorer section of society.
He can't point out anything, not a single benefit. Doesnt even know whats going on. Dougpol...the crimes against aboriginals were committed by the English and their settler descendants. So were the ones on most indigenous peoples of the world. Get a clue before you spout. Their descendants are still racists clows like that today.
Just get on with brexit ffs, its a win for civilization. British museums are just filled with stolen stuff. The worlds biggest racists and thieves. We are working trying to help our aborigines, except as i said above. Gooooo nooooow!
