How will BREXIT affect the immigrants in UK and Poland.

It's more like there's no culture of giving anything for nothing here. Even charities expect here some effort (like being sober at least...) from people they help. Over there these bums don't even bother cleaning their own clothes, they go to get the new ones twice a week and just dump the "old" ones into the bin, no kidding. That's why they go there. Just stop helping them and they will be gone. Problem solved. Same with the "refugees".


We don't show "solidarity" because that would be like giving more vodka to the alcoholic ! Italians are now "threatening" to close their ports for the "rescue ships". They should have done it 2 years ago ! If we "show solidarity" and take some of these Syrian women and children ( thejetstreamjournal.com/6117/news/african-migration-crisis/ ) simply more of them will come. The stream is endless. There's over a billion people in Africa and the birth rate is huge. What's the point of taking them here ? You can feed 20 people there for the cost of "hosting" 1 in Europe. That + a long term growth/development strategy (some of the most "enlightened" EU states could stop supporting shytty African dictators for a start) could be a solution. "Sharing" these people is not any solidarity, it's utter madness. The solution is to turn Africa into 2nd Europe, not the other way around.

Not sure how it looks like today but not long ago we had border guards in Macedonia and Croatia. Now that's real solidarity !

You still don't understand.

Firstly the three countries you mention joined at different times. Poland and Lithuania in 2004, Romania in 2007. In 2004 the existing EU members were not obliged to take any workers from the accession countries. Existing EU members were allowed to decide on their own individual policies regarding restrictions which would remain in place until 2011. The UK and Ireland chose not to place any restrictions on the rights of workers from accession countries. We accepted Polish workers for a full seven years before the other EU countries. When Romania joined in 2007 we were a bit more wary. Ireland placed restrictions until 2012 and the UK until 2014.

So in a nutshell, the huge influx of Poles and others into Ireland and the UK was a result of our own actions, we chose to allow immigration from the accession countries. It wasn't forced on us.

@Atch

I'm aware that UK opened its labor market to poles. This was however AFTER the EU entry of Poland. So were supposed to be thankful for this? The uk took poles in bc they didnt want to work in their own fields and factories and other dirty jobs. Same reason as why americans allowed so many mexicans to come in. That's great uk decided to take in poles, don't expect us to do the same though... Unless youre a Ukrainian.. Muslim and african economic migrants need not apply.

@Tacitus
Well if they applied for refugee status in Poland like some Christian Iraqis did well take them. Otherwise don't ask us, Hungary, or any number of countries east of Germany to take in your migrants. You can keep then at your house. Were not interested. This isn't the international socialist and were not interested in your solidarity

First of all, I'm not convinced that Kurz is far right so your headline is misleading. Anyone who speaks out about Islamic segregation these days is automatically labelled far right and/or racist. Those accusations used to be enough to shut the argument down but not anymore as there ARE things wrong with the Christian-Islamic society that is evolving in Europe and it is only right that people are allowed to voice their opinions (especially those who speak from experience-which discounts some members from this forum !).

South Europe has not faced a 'refugee crisis'. I repeat there is no 'refugee crisis'

I say this for the simple reason that the vast majority of those showing up are transparently not refugees in any real sense. Anyone following this story (which has been going on for _years_) knows this. The problem is that Southern Europe was/is systematically prevented form acting in a sane manner and closing the borders/repatriating 'refugees' back to the closest country they came from or simply deciding closing the borders.

Laws on refugees and asylum from 50 years ago are hopelessly out of date. But the EU is a slow, lumbering reactive beast.

Again, there was _no_ refugee crisis in Southern Europe, there was a crisis caused by dysfunctional and outdated laws that created false hope in tens of millions of people who would like to live in Europe.

@mafketis

No one wanted to help Italy and Greece when they asked for it. So they said screw it and let the migrants go further up north. Only to be exacerbated by Merkel's welcome to anyone who could make it to Germany.

Physically IMPOSSIBLE to deport 250,000 failed asylum seekers says Angela Merkel ally

GERMANY cannot possibly deport the estimated 250,000 failed asylum seekers who have entered the nation, Bavaria's leader has claimed.
express.co.uk/news/world/840173/angela-merkel-horst-seehofer-germany-deport-migrants-christian-social-union-asylum-seekers

Merkel says migrants must respect tolerance and German laws - she wouldn't be saying things like this if there wasn't clearly a problem with migrants assimilating being law abiding residents and assets to the society

reuters.com/article/us-germany-election-muslims/merkel-says-migrants-must-respect-tolerance-german-laws-idUSKBN1740PE

Care to quote her saying that?

Of the different stories regarding her motivation, I think the most likely was that she simply lost her nerve (she had forces on the border to turn them back and decided at the last minute the PR wouldn't be good and so she let them in underestimating how many would finally show up). Since then she's tried to brazen it out that it wasn't a catastropically bad decision creating a money pit and hurting the health and safety of citizens.

Not really. What is more to that, Polish people are perfectly OK about buying German products. I have never heard of any calls aimed at boycotting those really.

There have been two incidents recently caused by morons protesting against speaking German in public or on trams to be more precise. The most recent one was in Poznań where some guy was verbally abusing a couple speaking in German. The woman who was Polish wore a burka and her partner was a dark-skinned man. It was the driver of the tram who ordered that moron to get out of the vehicle, but on getting off he managed to spat onto the man. The police is now in search of the offender.

In the earlier incident, some moron physically attacked a white man who was speaking German on a tram in Kraków. The person attacked turned out to be a ... Polish professor of the Jagillonian University speaking in German with a colleague from a German university while on a tram ride. The offender was promptly arrested by police.

@Harry

Sure, read post 96 in this thread.

@mafketis
Merkel, and quite a lot of other Germans unfortunately, have this strange mentality as if they need to perpetually atone for WW2. She's said herself that Germany must accept refugees and help them 'due to our history' - referencing WW2 and the Nazis.

Then she goes back and forth between being pro-migrant or pro-border control all the time. A few months back she said that she won't accept any upper limit. "On the issue of an upper limit, my position is clear," Merkel said in an interview broadcast live on Germany's ARD on Sunday. "I won't accept one." Yet during her campaign she had a far more pro-border control, pro-German message. I hope she gets charged for treason against the German people.

We all know how the words refugee and migrant became totally interchangeable.... Now the word migrant is even more popular since the vast majority of the people who have come to Europe from ME and Africa aren't refugees but rather migrants. Less than 20% were found to be from places like Syria, Eritrea, Afghanistan, etc.

Now she further wants to spread Islam and force the citizens to accept that the invaders are here to stay - Taxpayer funded, government paid Muslim workers, counselors, translators, in schools, prisons, healthcare centers, etc. as if getting rid of pork in German schools and making everything halal wasn't enough...

Merkel: Give Turkey Billions More Euros to Keep Migrants out of Europe
breitbart.com/london/2017/10/23/merkel-turkey-billions-euros-asylum-seekers-europe
welt.de/newsticker/dpa_nt/infoline_nt/brennpunkte_nt/article169803320/Merkel-will-weitere-Milliarden-fuer-Fluechtlinge-in-der-Tuerkei.html

Yes. All EU citizens should be thankful for the fact that they have ease of access to jobs all over Europe.


Actually if you read UK government documents dating back to the pre-accession period, the idea was to attract skilled workers to fill gaps in the UK labour market. Rather foolishly and short-sightedly they didn't take into account the fact that many Poles wouldn't have enough English to work in the roles for which they were qualified and would end up taking unskilled jobs. But that was the choice of the Polish immigrants themselves. They weren't conscripted or press-ganged into it.


As a member of the EU Poland has to abide by the rules regarding freedom of movement so any EU citizen including those born in Africa or outside Europe and those who are Muslim are free to come to Poland. Poland also has to accept its share of those who are being resettled by the previous consensus of EU member states. If a country wants to be in the EU, it can't just pick and choose which bits of EU policy it will honour and which it will ignore. If Poland doesn't want to accept migrants, doesn't want to stop logging etc wants to do its own thing, fair enough, time for Polexit.

Yet earlier you just wrote: In 2004 the existing EU members were not obliged to take any workers from the accession countries. Existing EU members were allowed to decide on their own individual policies regarding restrictions which would remain in place until 2011. The UK and Ireland chose not to place any restrictions on the rights of workers from accession countries England and EU are two different things.... When I wrote 'So we're supposed to be thankful for this?' I was referring to England, not the EU. And no, we're not thankful to England. We came because there was work. We don't anything to them. It was simply a business transaction - money for labor.


Of course, and as we've discussed this before, thankfully, very few of them want to come to Poland. We don't have an issue with EU citizens coming to Poland - we have an issue with migrants being thrown inside our borders and we have no clue who they are, where they're from


Where exactly does it say in EU law that Poland has to accept migrants?
That is what the courts are discussing - although this issue is fading more and more as the unelected EU commissars like Junker realize that they can't force Poland to accept migrants - especially since Hungary and many other countries also don't want migrants in their countries and Polish citizens overwhelmingly support. In the worst case, we'll be fined 2 bil EU - (50 euro a Pole - 2 bil / 40 mil - pfffttt big deal) and even that 'threat' from months ago has since faded out. We are refusing to comply and they'd cant figure out how to make us - aside from threatening our voting rights which would require all EU members to unanimously vote to suspend - and Hungary has our back along with other countries. As we have said there is nothing worse the EU can do to Poland than force it to accept migrants. 75% of Poles don't want migrants from ME and Africa - we support our government in this regard. Both PO and PiS voters overwhelmingly reject forced quotas. Poles will win this battle - and even if we have to pay a 2 bil fine, 50 euros a Pole, to continue having ZERO Islamic terror attacks its a small price to pay. The EU really doesn't know how to handle this because the rise of the anti-migrant right is becoming stronger and stronger everyday - as this thread about Austria points out. Poland, Hungary, Czechy, Bulgaria, Romania, the Baltics, Austria, Slovakia, are all wary of accepting migrants from the EU. Czechy complied with a mere 100 individuals who they get to chose. The rest are saying no thanks and are standing up for their civilization and culture, refusing to be cucked by the EU's multikulti b.s.


You fail to realize that 80% of Poles want to stay in the EU. Logging and migrants are two of perhaps thousands of rules, regulations, laws that Poland follows - 2 that Poland disagrees with out of thousands. We comply with 99% of what the EU asks of us. And if a Polexit is in the works, time will only tell. At least we'll get to keep the hundreds of billions invested into Polish infrastructure.


Why not? England has in numerous instances. Oh wait I forgot, it's 'unique' right?


They have to make us. EU is unable to tell anyone what they 'have to do' without backing it up. Without enforcement, those words mean nothing. As we can see, this refusal to accept migrants has gone on since 2015 - and we've still not taken any in since then. They've threatened fines, suspension, and all sorts of nonsense - NONE of which stuck... Poles realize the EU is all bark and note bite.

She simply does not say what you claim she says there. As I've said before, this lack of people being willing (or able) to tell the truth is a large part of the downwards spiral we're seeing in politics recently (and the source you linked to, Russia Today, also plays a large part).

@Harry

The source has nothing to do with the fact that its a speech of Merkel.... whether it was CNN, BBC, Breitbart, etc it's the same freaken speech...

She clearly said two things in that speech:

'Refugees must be helped whether we want to or not'...

'Whoever wants to come here for economic reasons, you cannot stay long term, we cannot manage that' (meaning you can come, but you can't stay for long)

Besides, actions speak louder than words. She could have easily ordered the army to guard the borders and check everyone who is coming in to make sure they're a EU citizen and let those people pass and send the illegals back across the Mediterranean to whatever hell hole they came from. The EU migration law and more so enforcement are a joke. In most Muslim countries you can't even get a visa without a blood check - if you have any diseases BAM! you're kicked out... I have no clue why we don't do that to prevent people with HIV from coming in and overburdening our hospitals and infecting people...

Yes, that's a legal obligation as well as a moral one. It's also something which millions of Poles have benefited from in living memory.


That's your interpretation of a carefully edited version of what she actually said, it's not what she actually said.


Such orders would have been a breach of international law.

Give three examples.


That's a very childish attitude.


You see that's the difference between the accession countries and the old members. Up till now the EU has arrived at policy making decisions through discussion and consensus amongst members. Enforcement and coercion are part of the old Soviet style politics that the former Eastern Bloc can relate to. Poland is drifting back to a place where it feels comfortable, authoritarian government.


There will be EU reforms in the future and you can be sure that part of those reforms will include putting in place measures to act swiftly against countries who display utter contempt for the partnership of which they are members. There will definitely have to be measures put in place to suspend membership of those who act as Poland is presently doing and if a country is deemed by a majority of members to be a threat to the stability of the Union, then I'm guessing there will be a system for expelling that country.

Protecting your own borders and deporting people is not a violation of international law. You can send them to the country they originally filed their asylum status in, IF they have one. If not, you deport them.


Her words words clear and that sentence unedited - the same speech is available on youtube - ''Whoever wants to come here for economic reasons, you cannot stay long term'.... I don't know any other way to interpret that.... if she didn't want economic migrants she could have easily said 'whoever wants to come ehre for economic reasons, you will be sent back' instead of 'you cannot stay long term' - that literally means well if you come here for economic reasons, you can stay, but not long term.... its clear as day dude...


HAHAHAH just shows how little you know of Poland.... Yeah Poles REALLY were helped during and after ww2 and into the cold war... please!! Millions of Poles most certainly never filed 'millions' of refugee asylum claims... Most of the 'Polish Refugees' fled ON FOOT from gulags in USSR to places like Iran, India, etc.

If they file an asylum claim in Poland, and IF it is accepted, they yes they can stay - as a few Iraqi Christians have. However, most migrants/refugees aren't interested in Poland because of our 70 euro a month welfare - instead they prefer Germany and Sweden where the welfare payments are greater than any salary they'd make back home. They use to also seek Denmark until

It doesn't matter what her exact words were, the results speak for themselves, hundreds of thousands of unintegrateable unemployyable culturally incompatible men are in Germany for the long haul.

@Spiritus, have you never heard of cloaking a potentially dangerous agenda behind safe-sounding, soft words?? Unlike the late Joerg Haider, Kurz wanted to win his constituants by wooing, rather than simply scaring them into submission. He remembered that old Austrian proverb "Mit Speck faengt man Maeuse" or loosely translated, "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

Nearly every so-called racist, bigot of this new age will couch harmful and hateful rhetoric behind a comforting self-image,be it that chap Murray here in the states, proving that blacks are mentally inferior, but by using supposed stats to back up his so-called "research". If a normally bitter pill is coated with sugar, one is more likely to swallow it.

During WWII, Hitler actually convinced the foreign press that he was a man of peace, using skillfully effective propaganda (with the help of Leni Riefenstahl and others) and fooled among others Chamberlain, the American Legion which visited Germany after 1933 on a brief tour, even Roosevelt, at least for a while.

The Jews too were lulled into believing they were going on a holiday, being "resettled" and then deloused upon arrival by the promise of a nice, relaxing shower.

Watch what they do, not what they say:-)

Childish how? That's how geopolitics work. You can't make a nation, its leadership and its people do anything without backing it up with a carrot or stick. Talk is cheap... Poland and Hungary realized the EU is all bark no bite and are calling it out in its bluff time and time again.

Poland is drifting back to a place where it feels comfortable, authoritarian government

If that's how you want to put it, so what? We've replaced a commie government who held Poles under Moscow's heel. Now we have another outside, foreign group telling us what to do in our sovereign borders and meddling in our affairs - threatening to fine us for things we're doing inside of our own sovereign borders. Poles think of the EC as being controlling and authoritarian - kind of like the PRL authorities before them. They're viewed as commies and socialists more and more by Poles - but nonetheless Poles wish to stay because of the economic benefits. Even with the 'constitutional crisis' - Poles wanted to settle it amongst themselves and we did. PiS corrects course if it does something to upset the populace. Hence, why PiS has record popularity amongst Poles - double that of losing PO. We are happy with a government that embraces and promotes family values, Christian culture, homogeneity of Poland, and stands up to those who seek to harm and undermine our sovereignty. That's what Poles want and what our government gives. Sorry if that doesn't fit into your EU multikulti far left values, but that's not what the Polish people want. Again, 75% of Poles reject migration from Africa and ME.


Oh will there now? And when will that come exactly? How swiftly - hopefully less than 2+ years? Seems they can't manage the few things on their plate as it is. The EU can't even figure out what to do with Poland and Hungary lol... and its been over 2 years!! All bark, no bite... They could've fined the tiny 2 bil eu (50 euro a Pole ... pfffttt!!!) to Poland and they failed to even do that. All they've done is send 'warnings' and 'threats' to Poland to not enact this or that law. Actually, since the whole constitutional crisis thing, they've pretty much forgotten (or rather simply gave up) on trying to force Poland and others to accept migrants.

EU should focus more on eliminating the 2 year state of emergency caused by migrants in France and protecting its borders so there's less terror attacks. They should be emulating Poland and Hungary - but they're too busy propagating their ridiculous far left multi kulti vision to the masses... meanwhile the leaders stay in their ivory towers with armed guards far away from the ninja women and dudes with foot long beards prowling the cities and young dark skinned men attacking people coming out of and into the subways...

There will definitely have to be measures put in place to suspend membership of those who act as Poland is presently doing and if a country is deemed by a majority of members to be a threat to the stability

Well at the moment there isn't and this would take a very long time to implement even IF it was on the agenda. You realize that MEPs come from both the center, right, far right, left, far left so passing such an article or amendment would be very difficult to say the least. Plus, that is very vague - in that case the EU would kick out Spain for 'threatening the stability of the Union.' If Poland WERE theoretically expelled, Poland can thank EU for the hundreds of billions they've spent into our infrastructure and say peace out. Then we can move forward with our 3 Seas partners, V4, China, United States, Turkey, etc.


UK has a total of 4 opt-outs - more than any EU member...

That is where UK is very good....attract skilled workers from other countries so they don't have to cover costs of their education.Bit cynical and can backfire when these skilled workers start heading home after Brexit.

Those opt-outs were negotiated and agreed so it's not a case of the UK defying EU rulings or ignoring policies. Do you actually understand the difference?

Of course but that doesn't mean EVERYONE has a dangerous agenda just because they do not toe the liberal party line. Are we really living in a world where if you're not a liberal then you must be a racist ?


My family have personal experience of this.They spent years after the war in DP camps throughout Germany. They were moved from camp to camp at least 15 times and each time were told you could only take essential items with you. Rations inside the camps were worse than most people had to endure during the war years.

@idem

That's what Poles have been doing. Thousands of them have left and are continuing to leave. All the Poles who have made good money working as plumbers, contractors, factory workers, etc are now returning to Poland with savings, a better resume, and a country that has far higher wages and far lower unemployment than before they left.

It's the same thing in US - much of them are skilled, many are not though. You have people that are skilled in one trade or even have an education but they chose to work in like construction and related fields because of the quick easy money. Some of the people that are like doctors, lawyers, etc end up learning the language and redo all their licensing. Some are successful, some kind of, some not. Like one husband and wife couple moved from PL to US and the husband was a cardiologist back in PL but he couldn't pass the certification to be an MD but did make it as high as a sort of like physical therapist guy. The wife was a dentist in PL and continued doing the same in US though.


That's the perception I get from antifa and other far leftists... same as if you're proud of your European culture...

@Atch
And we're opting out of taking in migrants from the ME and Africa with the backing of Hungary and other E Euro states. Like Nigel Farage said: What a surprise - EU court undermines national sovereignty once again. It should be a decision of nation states who it allows inside its borders."

Can we get back on topic now????

I don't see any Poles returning to Poland.
More and more construction workers you see here are actually Ukrainians.

@kaprys


I know few who returned but there are different reasons for it. These were couples with small children and they just decided that they want to bring them up in Poland. I think it depends from which part of Poland someone comes from...In Krakow there are quite a few good jobs so people come back.

softwaremind.com/blog/krakow_top_outsourcing_destination

@idem
Whole families? I know men who went to the UK to earn some extra money leaving their families here. Some did return later on. Some took their families to the UK.

I used to work in London for a while but had no intention of staying and came back home later on. But Polish people I knew there stayed.

I know people who moved to Norway, Sweden or even Iceland. They're still there. And it's been over 10 years since the first wave of immigration.

Going back is every bit as difficult (and sometimes harder) than leaving in the first place. The Poland they left doesn't exist anymore.

Reverse culture shock can be harder for returnees to deal with than their original culture shock when they left (partly because people don't expect it at all).

That is true I always remember Poland when I left. Even I visit few times a year as we have flat in Krakow but visiting is different to living and working there.

On positive side -at every visit I see difference and it is rather good one.I think we are much more open now. Polish visit different countries in Europe ( for work, holidays) Foreign companies invest in Poland. There is this perception that we never smile and look gloomy. I think it changed too....people on the street look much more relaxed and smile more.

@idem
Have you thought of coming back for good?
@mafketis
I did suffer from it when I came back. For the first few days I was like: why?
And my stay there wasn't that long plus I would get home for Christmas/Easter.
A lot of things have changed here since joining the EU. I'm gonna be told off about it but I'll say it - some of these changes are due to the EU funds. Also it's much easier to travel now so we have a chance to experience other cultures. We have changed as a society, too.

As for right winged parties, well, they seem to have more and more supporters everywhere.