Poland Should Beef Up Military

sjc.edu/PDF/studentresearch/cierocki.pdf



My...did you think long about that???
But you are correct, I didn't had a life in 1795...congrats!

Why not rather use your few left braincells and take a history book to hand for a change?

I admit Poland took those lands [accept Gdansk]but if you little germans did take us over in 1795 it wouldnt happend.


Why not use the still few moving muscles in your body to get off the computer?

Oh...no wondering about my muscles...they are moving...especially my in my stomach because I have to laugh about you so much, but thanks for asking!


Write more clearly please..I still have no idea what you want to say with that!

But can you blame them? One of the reasons why Hitler was so popular among Germans was the fact that he was openly against the resolutions of the treaty of Versailles, the international act that was the basis of Poland's existence as a sovereign state, which the Germans saw as very unjust and humiliating. A statement that more than once you acknowledged on this very forum.

The exterritorial rail and highway were in fact Polish ideas from the 1920's that were abandoned later on once Hitler and his aggressive politics started to flourish, and the intervention of French and British diplomacy is just a clear sign that Poles weren’t alone in the right evaluation of the way Germany was heading in the late 1930’s.

Or are you maybe of an opinion that they all were wrong and Hitler wasn't in fact a cunning, unstable psychotic warmonger?

And can you blame them?

PS: All over Europe this Treaty is seen now as a fault and a disaster, directly leading to the rise of the Nazis and WWII, but not in Poland, that should tell you something...

Poland would have eventually gained independence, again... it was only a matter of time. Versailles Treaty sped the process up.
It would have been impossible to hold a 20+ million ethnic group down for so long.. I'm sure even you can appreciate that BB.

Who knows...after all the Germans never were into ethnic cleansing so much before...
Poles lived together with Germans and Austrians for Centuries...but once Poles took over it was bye bye Germans!

Wasn't it Dmowski who dreamed already before WWII of a only-Poles Poland???

This treaty gave polish people an independent state. Should we cry about it?

Besides, I remember that in a topic about Kosovo and in a different one about Abkhazia and South Osetia you were clearly and strongly for nations having the right to have their own independent and sovereign states. Are you of a different opinion when it comes to Poland and Poles?

When other countries arte concerned than certainly yes, but when we talk about German Reich than it's a disaster, eh? Some double standards there Bratwurts?

If you watched russel peters you would lose that whole belly of yours!

Well... Poland should be offered Eastern Prussia and Gdańsk as well. This would stop plans of German expansion to the east in longer run. British PM is to blame here, he considered Poland to be French ally... While the French are responsible for too soft policy towards Germany after Versailles.


General rule of treaty of Versailles was to create national states. Mainly because of Wilson.

Well...it was a huge helper for some 50 Million dead some years later...the rest of Europe
surely did cry about it!


As I said before, the problem wasn't that you got your independence but that you wanted it at the costs of the Germans and you wanted even more and even more...a huge country without any Germans at all and that in a region which was heavily mixed and partly overwhelming german for nearly a millennia!

Some talking, negotiating and compromising would had gone a long way....but how did your Smygli (sp?) say: "In one week in Berlin!" or "Germany can't avoid war even if she wanted to!"

But I trust nobody told you about that in history lessons in school either, am I right?


No...I compare Kosovo with Danzig and the Serbs taking over again.
Even as they would be only a tiny minority to 97 percent Albos...That's how it was back then..

Nooooooooo....it's always the poor, poor Poles against the bad german barbarians, right? Right!


You have it now and you should stop your whining about the war already!
You wanted it all, you got it and you paid a price...period!


You're an idiot lesser and now I know that the EU will be fine...

The biggest amount of WWII whiners is in the Germany, they provoke this discussion in Poland and the Czech Republic.

Hes to afraid to admit anything,

Heh...wrong again!Just take a look about the whine-threads and who starts them, surely no German!

Oh...wait...if it isn't WWII it's surely Grünwald! How could I forget..

Some of you live on that!

Where do neo nazis and skin heads come from??

germany and russia

they still think the wars on

Please just shut up and dont talk back because you just mix up alot of nonscence

Right, poles should had have their independence, but ony at the cost of Russians. Only then it is fair. :)
For your information, the lands that Poland got after the WWI were predominantly inhabit by Poles, with an exception of Danzig which actually, in contrary what you have numerously written here on PF, wasn't added to Poland. It was granted a status of a free city, neither under Polish nor German jurisdiction. The post WWII shift of PL-GER boundaries is a totally different story.

Please elaborate your position, because this personal attack dont tell us much why you disagree with me. Be sure that I can defend my statement.

*groans*

Study some more..the status of a free city was running out and it was then as the Poles pointed the gun on the heads of the Germans....become Poles ore leave!

The answer to Poles and Jews in 1939 was *BANG*

Just shut up

That the french were to "soft" is just ridiculous but then you believe the whole EU a bunch of unskilled conspirationalists....so what to expect.

And I'm losing interst in a a debate with you honestly...


Erm...you know that this is a talk board, don't you?
From which cave are you?

To bad if others have a better knowledge about the topic and a better command of the board language...but you don't HAVE to be here, you know? Ugah ugah

Well it certainly looks like they have covered this subject thoroughly on your history lessons.

Do you honestly think that once Hitler would got what he wanted from Poland , he would stop making any more claims? Or, maybe satisfied with the outcome of the negotiations he would like to see Greater Poland and the parts of Silesia that were joined to Poland as a result of a plebiscite, back in Reich?

No, not really! He was a mad man and I doubt he really gave a shit about the Germans there, he used them as a tool.

But the feelings of the german folks was real, he rode on it to power!
Without that treaty he wouldn't had came to power in the first place, I'm sure of that...

But this treaty gave you the independence...so what now?

Really?
How much reparations German state paid?
Unwillingness to confirm Polish western border raised German hopes up.
Ruined state was allowed to arm itself very quickly, despite they saw radical Hitler.
German army crossed demilitarized zone and nothing happened.
Later no reaction about Austria and selling out Czechoslovakia.

Everything lead to WWII.

AFTER Hitler became chancellor you forgot to add...around 1/3 of the Germans voted for his party and alot of their promises were about this Treaty and his fight against it!

Then he set to work...

Talk all you want just dont talk about ww2 because you dont know nothing about it.

German state lost the war, so if they expected a reward then indeed must feel disappointed. At that time Germany should be divided to many small duties. Local dukes would not allow people like Hitler to spread their BS.

What...independence and self determination for the Poles but not for the Germans???
Hypocrite...it's people like you who made voting for Hitler an interesting alternative..

PS: And another disappointment...it was not a unified Germany but PRUSSIA who handed you your bloodiest defeats and your partitions time and time again...already forgotten? You want it back???

God...your history lessons really sucks!

Oh dear.

Maybe read first about so called Russian "aggression" from somewhere else that fox and cnn... American aggression on Iraq was highly democratic in return....right? Poland needs to sit down, proclaim itself neutral like Nordic countries and concentrate on generating a welfare for its own citizens versus trying to bring its rotten, corrupted, south american style "democracy" to other countries, namely Afghanistan. Poland will always be weak, no matter how much you spend on military, compared to such as superpower as Russia, concentrate on how you can effectively trade with them...

First of all I'm not great supporter of national self-determination in general. However these German duties would be independent and ruled by legitimate rulers. German lands have long history of being organized in such mood and somehow they managed to develop nicely, better than any centralized big state. So, how could you suspect that I wish bad for Germans? You prefer higher living standard of average citizen or perhaps care only about being European military superpower?

Today I support the idea of one but highly decentralized Polish state. One state, just because of external security.


If Germany would be divided then they would not have opportunity to vote.


Ever heard about Austro-Hungarian Empire or Russian Empire? Anyway I blame Polish aristocracy for this outcome.