Amnesty to Illegal immigrants in Poland

If it leads to slightly more diversity, then I'm for it. Personally, I'd like to meet more Ukrainians and Belarussians here. Whilst Poland fits the homogeneity model well, I'd still like to see some more foreign faces

Go to the east of Poland!


I'm certainly seeing a lot more in Warsaw.

Harry, by here I meant Gliwice :) Some more Slavic faces with other perspectives would be welcomed by myself. Beyond Slavic too, of course.

Harry pre and post communism the rynek in my old town was full of Ukrainians, Russians, Georgians but those people didn't live there permanently and didn't have a good opinion with the locals who thought they cheat them. What I think Seanus means is a diverse different class group of Slavs coming to live permanently in Poland. Most Poles would agree it would be the easiest for them to integrate (similar language and culture) then other Europeans. I'm not saying I'd want Warsaw to become London but a little diversity is good. I think the government made the right move with this. BTW you see how it is with the Chechen asylum seekers they don't wanna work unless someone offers them the kind of money they'd make in Germany. They act like they're in their own country.

Difference now is that the Ukrainians and Belarussians are there to stay, which is pretty lucky given the shortage of workers in some places. Last year we went to a small town near Ketrzyn and it was like there had been a war: virtually no men there between the ages of 20 and 40 and not many women of that age range either. Apparently 75% of local doctors were from Belarus and a fair chunk of the local teachers too.


Certainly does wonders for the food scene. And the beer scene for that matter: Ukrainian and Russian beers can be cracking!


Yep: now the people who are here anyway can pay taxes.

It would also test out the tolerance concept. I think most Poles wouldn't even bat an eyelid when they found out they were sitting next to a standard Ukrainian or Belarussian in a bar or restaurant. There is really no threat there. Screaming mujihadeen may be a different matter ;) ;)

Yea especially in small towns and the countryside. If the young men didn't go off to a big city to study or abroad to work they're drunk standing by some store. Workers are definitively needed.


The problem in Poland as elsewhere is people's thoughts on others are based on stereotypes and stories they've heard. 99% of the time people change their negative thoughts on others once they actually give them a chance and get to know them.

Spot on, Penn. Some may look down their noses at them but such types are best left ignored.

I really have not noticed men standing drunk by stores in the small (and large) towns in the east that I've been visiting over the last couple of years, not even when you get to the absolute arse-end of nowhere.

Then things must have changed in the last couple of years I saw it all the time before. If not with some cheap wine then a beer.

They occasionally do so here, Harry.

Oh really like Polish taxpayer is paying for programs on TV in their language and Ukrainian schools as well - should give back Poland's land and then I do not see a problem. But not before = their integration is problematic and I doubt that they will loyal to Poland.


the Government and all in and outs administration bodies should kick out redundant bureaucrats with shoddy or useless diplomas and pay a descent wages to teachers and doctors.

Should also invest in the areas depleted by years of the stupid and treacherous so called liberal policy to prompt the growth.

sure! they are our slavic brothers <3


oh yeah, lol, just bring on the nigerians, arabs, pakis and indians, and you'll see how fast our Ojczyzna will die.

looks like Polska hasn't learned a damn thing from observing their western European counterparts...

FOR SHAME! =(

Slavic brothers, yes.

By some I meant just that. Some younger folk, for example. Here where I am, old folk walk the streets as if WWIII is set to decimate the place tomorrow. That's not the kind of people that inspire.

How I see this with the fear that lack of relevant historical facts made me err- my conclusions might be totally wrong, please feel free to correct me.

British are known for their liberal attitudes when it comes to foreigners, they mixed, they were ruled by foreigners, they are good hosts, and that is for me personally an interesting characteristic.

But expecting all others to have the same openness when it comes to more or less distant cultures is something too ambitious. And at the end not logical.

Some cultures have reasons to be more xenophobic, those whose survival depended on cohesiveness , which is the case of large parts of continental Europe. British isles have specific, isolated geographical position where intruders from the continent were not a threat to survival of the English nation, you rather assimilated the invaders which is possible if there is no critical mass impossible for assimilation. And ocean was a natural protection against that threat.

On the other hand nations on the continent were constantly under same threat or even threat of extinction without seas surrounding them.

Also, probably there is the element of guilt from colonial past, so you tend to be over tolerant now, being guests all around the globe previoulsy (I understand why and how it evolved I think, navy was a mean of survival, conquering as well), and later inviting more guests you had to find way to live with them, norm helped and served there as well, to achieve the goal, to adapt.

Tolerance is indeed a nice result of that process.

But that is something specific for britain and those who share their cultural heritage and where tolerance was also one of the means to rise like a nation , but .....

continental European countries (not only european) faced due to their position different problems and logic of survival had to evolve in some other direction.

Why imposing norms that served you to others whose destinies demanded different adaptations and norms for their survival?

Xenophobia had and still has its purpose. it has evolutionary roots. protect your gene pool. that is why we all prefer our kins to our wife's kins.

and europe was all about bloody evolutionary games for millennium and more. And this forum proves it is a vital principle still.

Like your openness served function of survival (Britons+ angles, saxons and then that new group assimilated danes,normans= English nation), elevated tolerance would have proven to be a tool of self destruction in the continental case of like i.e. Khazars.

Try to teach Germans the tolerance lesson , they will pretend that they embraced it, yet... they wouldn't have survived if they did and they know it.

French? Italians? Poles? Hungarians? Anyone in the classroom? :)

It is I'm afraid learned by heart and as a recital for important audience.

looking for inspiration are you ?


BS!


Are they ? I think that is a common misconception.I Would rather say that they do not care much about foreigners and they are used to have them about.

Other than that their attitude is no different than for example in Poland.

Really? as a foreigner who spent 16 years in the UK, in general I don't think that gives Brits enough credit (apart from Daily Mail readers) for their tolerance.

In the UK the fear doesn't seem to be the foreignness of a person, in general, but the numbers. People might resent being outnumbered in their communities by immigrants after large influxes in a relatively short space of time, as happened in parts of the UK, with Asians and even Poles, even Irish if yo go back... and for that matter France and Spain, where massive Brit enclaves are created, but that is different to disliking/fearing/resenting all foreigners.

One country had the biggest empire the world has ever known and one, well was at the other end of that type of experience. In all empires, things/wealth/people gravitate to the centre, so you get places like London, Paris even Madrid and Lisbon with vast numbers of people descended from immigrants and no one gives a toss, whereas homogeneous and embracing foreigners rarely go hand in hand.

Really! Do you care to elaborate about differences in an attitude between Poles and Brits towards foreigners ?


above is just a mish mush !

No, just not dour faces with no enterprise in them.

They are your Slavic brothers and no amount of nationalistic gutrot will change that.

Ironside

I'll try again (due to the unfathomable deletion algorithm)

In the UK the fear doesn't seem to be the foreignness of a person, in general, but the numbers of immigrants in one's area.

Poland is one of the most homogeneous societies in Europe, so how can attitudes be the same in a country with a long history of waves of immigrants vs. one that doesn't?

People might resent being outnumbered in their communities by immigrants after large influxes in a relatively short space of time, as happened in parts of the UK, with Asians and even Poles, even Irish if you go back in time. Interestingly, even my Polish Mrs can't believe how many Poles are in some towns in the UK and she genuinely worries in a 'Rivers of blood' kind of way, and says that she couldn't imagine so many foreigners integrating into Poland.

We shouldnt welcome illegal immigrants ... rather we should relax our foreign student fee and other visa hurdles and include them as immigrants. This will give our society more benefit than inviting illegal immigrants who just get in through shady means.

Illegal immigrants won't be welcomed by the people here so I don't get what Tusk thought he was playing at. The man needs to go. He thinks the Euro is in the best interests of Poles and now this. He needs to listen to what his people are telling him.

VERY TRUE! a lot of my family members I've spoken to yesterday are utterly disgusted by this news.


such optimism... but it just won't ever happen...

I mean, I understand that a large amount of young Poles have emigrated west, but the goverment should help the native population to grow naturally instead of f**king doing what the west has/is, and just senselessly dump in a crap load of illegals, who we ALL know, will eventually bring all of their families over here as well and form their little communities in our cities. If a negative population growth means a drop in 3-4 million in the upcoming years, then be it! It's part of the 'cycle'...it will serve as an alarming wake-up call for the natives. My uncle is now having his 9th child in north-eastern Poland, and hell, they run their own little business in their farm-house backyard! That family is doing their part for the country and are damn proud to do so. The native population will start growing again sooner or later. Same is predicted for russia and japan.

Are they? Do they even know any immigrants to Poland? Somehow, I have my doubts.

You also do realise that Poles were among the worst illegal immigrants in Europe before 2004? London was full of them, and to this day, there's still plenty in America. Double standards?


Strange - I know quite a few immigrants here, and none of them "form little communities" - in fact, you'd struggle to tell that some of them actually are foreign. I certainly bet you (an American) wouldn't have a clue who was Polish and who wasn't.


Do they pay tax? I doubt it. 9 children is nothing but a drain on our (taxpaying) pockets - there are massive social transfers from Western Poland (and Warsaw) to the provinces to pay for such people. All the social handouts that make it worth having more than 4 children - this is what we pay for. Also, how many of those 9 children are actually likely to do much with themselves, apart from drinking outside the local shop and being a general burden on society?

Better to have 2 well educated children than 9 village peasants.

" My uncle is now having his 9th child in north-eastern Poland, and hell, they run their own little business in their farm-house backyard!"

I'd be willing to bet that I pay more tax per month than they pay in a year. Oh, and that they demand more from the state each week than I do in a year.

I'd be certain of that - big family, rural location running a "small business" - almost certainly going to be demanding from the State.

No doubt we've probably already read about them in Gazeta Wyborcza, demanding more money because they can't afford to feed their 9 children, including Magda (26), Pawel (24), Jan (21) and the others.

Give me hard working illegal immigrants over large begging families any day of the week!

But let's not be too harsh: I'm sure they've paid more tax here than our proud Polonia posters combined.

You are a really paragon of PC, aren't you.
They are not paying taxes - good! You are paying them - very good, you are overpaid already, and paying taxes give your otherwise useless existence some meaning !

by the way are you ashamed of your Jewish ancestry ?


you can always leave if you don't like it, right ?

It's good that they don't pay tax to pay for the services that they use?

Nice logic - but then again, you aren't a Polish taxpayer as well!

As for being overpaid - I'm paid what the market thinks I'm worth. Sorry, but the market has no demand for village peasants. As for the last comment - Mods?


I'm proud of it. We in the Jewish community in Poland know that we have a firm grasp on the levers of power, and we certainly won't let go.


If he didn't like it, why would he stay?

I'm willing to bet that Harry is much more knowledgeable about Polish history and traditions than 99% of Polish-Americans.

Mr D I bet you pay little or no tax and charge top dollar for your services, I didn't know you were Jewish! In the US the rich pay no tax or are able to claim tax concessions, I cannot see your logic.