George8600 10 | 630
2 Feb 2011 / #61
Germans are very rational and practical people.
And how rational is it to think rationality revolves around ones ethnicity? @_@
New Polish Light Tank - Anders
And how rational is it to think rationality revolves around ones ethnicity? @_@
Elaborate.
Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11915
2 Feb 2011 / #63
mmm a Tiger 111 , why not , but i think no modern tank could have the superior advantage the old Tiger 11 had in world war 2....
Yeah...it would be a kind of blasphemy...better let it rest in peace.
This name will probably never be given again (to a german Panzer that is)...ever...also a kind of a honor...
Thousands of Tigers are still being built every month , by model makers all over the world...Its the most popular of all the model tank kits , and outsells all other types...
Even in Russia the models of the Tiger are more popular than models of the T34....says something...!
Even in Russia the models of the Tiger are more popular than models of the T34....says something...!
Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11915
2 Feb 2011 / #65
Even in Russia the models of the Tiger are more popular than models of the T34....says something...!
Really! Interesting...
Does Poland need tanks?
Given that Poland is a flat country yeah it needs tanks, lots of tanks.
I'd figure that money would be better spent to help Poland be able to maintain air superiority in the case of offensive or defensive conflict.
Nope, its a standard.
Why not use a much cheaper and lighter armored vehicle? What would be the mission for these things?
Generally light tanks are useless pieces of junk but Polands decidents in military matters have a long standing tradition of stupidity.
If these regions are marshy and mellowy than Leopards won't be able to maneuver properly, maybe, even to move.
Yes they will, they're very powerfull machines.
times as expensive as let say Ukrainian T-84 Oplot and 1.5 times as heavy. So, for the same price one can buy 2 tanks with better maneuverability,
Except that a Leo2A4 can one shot a T-84 frontally from 2 miles, manouverability is about the only thing good about T-84, it sucks in all other departements.
Trust me, they're better off copying the rest of the EU and using the German or USA tanks.... Leopard for the win.
There's only 200~ Leos available on the market today and M1 tanks would be horribly overpriced.
The problem with Poland is that the polish army has no idea what kind of armoured forces it wants, Poland atm has 940 tanks with only 114 modern and about 140 semi-modern, the reminder is severely outdated and no one has the courage to say lets dish out a mountain of money for a new armored force.
Also the sources are limited, Germans dont have too many to sell and Americans want to sell us overpriced crap, Ukraine doesnt have anything good to offer, Russia is a political no-no, France and UK have midget sized armored forces to begin with...
Given that Poland is a flat country yeah it needs tanks, lots of tanks.
But without air superiority, tanks are nothing more than target practice. The Iraqis learned that lesson.
Generally light tanks are useless pieces of junk but Polands decidents in military matters have a long standing tradition of stupidity.
I'll drink to that.... *sigh*
I assume that the threat is from Russia, but it doesn't make much sense considering the amount of heavy armor that they have, and the highway of flatland between the motherland and Poland.
But then again, the main purpose of building this new beast is probably going to be export, and not real defense. It's up to the marketing guys now!
But without air superiority, tanks are nothing more than target practice. The Iraqis learned that lesson.
Air superiority is not required, enough airpower to cover your operations is enough and tanks are essential for any kind of offenive operation, no tanks = no offensive moves.
I assume that the threat is from Russia
And Belarus and Ukraine
but it doesn't make much sense considering the amount of heavy armor that they have
It does, in elastic defence you can redeploy the same unit of armor into several hotspots in a short amount of time, if said tanks are modern, well supported and have well trained crews they can kick arse in several consecutive engagements.
Also having a force of say 600 modern tanks can counterbalance a force many times larger, the bulk of russian armor is sh*t.
But then again, the main purpose of building this new beast is probably going to be export, and not real defense. It's up to the marketing guys now!
There's very little purpose of building this thing, its originally supposed to be an IFV and that makes sense since our mechanized troops still ride around in BMP-1s but as a light tank its useless.
I'll drink to that.... *sigh*
That happens tomorrow:)
Generally light tanks are useless pieces of junk but Polands decidents in military matters have a long standing tradition of stupidity.
They purpose is to be used in Afghanistan !
Thats silly, we can slap a 100mm gun on a Patria and have a fire support vehicle for 1/20th the price.
Also personally i'm a fan of developing stuff you can use in an actuall war, we're not wealthy enough to develop stuff specifically for peace keeping missions.
Also personally i'm a fan of developing stuff you can use in an actuall war, we're not wealthy enough to develop stuff specifically for peace keeping missions.
Thats silly, we can slap a 100mm gun on a Patria
I think it is what they have done, plus some adjustments !
They purpose is to be used in Afghanistan !
what about Kosovo? Many German tanks there so why not Polish, too?
Poland has now selected the maloclankski 2 as its new tank....
Polish_tank.jpg
Roughly a thousand such armored vehicles are needed in various versions (APC/IFV/light tank). The Polish government hasn't yet stated what will replace the aging T-72s and PT-91s in the Polish Army.. Surely not the 100-150 Leopard 2s. There is an ongoing modernization program but it's been slashed greatly due to lack of funding.
youtube.com/watch?v=bhYuK6mwi6M
youtube.com/watch?v=bhYuK6mwi6M