New cross war in Warsaw

Because it's the 21st century now. Most ppl don't care anymore.

Could you explain to me what terror is being endorsed among ppl that don't go to church anymore?

These views don't belong anymore in a modern society. If ppl want to make sth out of their lives, they need to go for it and don't need a church holding them back with views that are not of this time anymore.


Agreed on that part. But now the enemy has gone, what's left? What basis is left? You fought for your right to be free, to be free to do whatever you want to do. And if ppl chose to spend their time shopping or whatever, and not go to church, then so be it.

>^..^<

M-G (silly girl)

What do you mean by 'the other way'?


Apparently those babcias still do. As you can see yourself.


and then you complain when I call you names.

And rather silly...

But how old are these babcias? Old enough I guess too old to have a profound and lasting impact on the future, whereas the young generation has.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

So why do you care and hate them so much?


Please, come up with some more believable nonsense.


Said who? You?

Boys are indeed the source of some of the Catholic churches current troubles. Or to be more exact: the boys which Catholic priests keep buggering and the cover-up that follows.

I don't hate them. I never hate. But I do think it's funny that the same ppl who now try to defend this minority and their rights are the same to proclaim that other minorities should just shut up because they are a minority. But in 10-20 years' time they probably all be dead, those babcias and then things can finally move on. They already do, but incididents like this are just annoying and should not take place in any given modern society. They want to enforce their views upon the vast majority who does not share those views. Woa!


Can you, for once, give a decent answer to a decent question instead of just bouncing the ball back as that is evidence of weakness.


Me and the vast majority of the European and American population. But religious nutters there always have been and always will be. It's like a bad rash, you can't get rid of them.


Indeed, don't hear that much of that episode anymore. The big and oh so Catholic cover up has started?

>^..^<

M-G (babcias in retirement homes and that'll be the end of it)

Oh, but it's completely different story if, say, gays want to parade in the same place, right?


Yeah, you forgot to bring also the Inquisition and couple of others church's sins. You are slipping in your duties.

With the difference that the Catholic Church has been condoned for thousands of years and has sickened society long enough. Gays have been prosecuted for hundreds of years and are now on the verge of being accepted. And when equality is being propagated, that's a better idea than to propagate an institution that endorses unequality, covers up pedophiles and wants to brainwash ppl a few hundred years back.

>^..^<

M-G (are you for real?)

Firstly, they don't want to hold parades there. Secondly, gay parades tend to be positive celebrations to which all are invited and don't involve racist slogans being screamed by fanatics in front of the presidential palace.

Are YOU for real?


It's still about

I think I am more realistic than you are. And yet again NO substantial answer. Is this because you cannot rise above the level of making personal remarks?

The Catholic Church is a relic of the past. Learn to live with that.


Oh, were the blacks and Jews dragged on the stage once more?

>^..^<

M-G (yet again)

if i saw a cross like that in front of a presidential palace in some other country i visit, i would think it's some fanatic, hard core CC government... lol...

this cross would be well respected in the church were they wanted to move it... this fight now is more about "i was right, you're wrong", and less about the original point...

Keep dreaming, little boy.
And I require certain level of argument to be bother to answer.


It is divided between people who feel morally superior and people who feel intellectually superior. And some professional Church bashers, like Harry, who use the opportunity to have dig at the church.

Grin, indeed. And as far as I know, Poland is a secular state, isn't it?


LOL, what a lousy answer. What a lousy way to say that you cannot answer. You're disqualifying yourself with answers like this.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

I do not think the Catholic Church as a whole is a relic from the past. But the way it abuses its influence in Poland, and still is stuck in pre Vaticanum II times....

The Cross show is provocated, initiated and steered by PIS. -that is for sure. With a nice sprinkling of "Nasz Dziennik", Radio Marija and other fanatics. The still cannot cope they have lost the presidential elections so they are provoking nationalistic hatred like this.

In basically every country in the Western hemisphere your religious beliefs are your private business. Only here these berets want to make Catholicism (the Inquistition variant, that is) State Religion. Proclaiming Christ the King of Poland and that kind of idiocies.

In which century do these people live in ?

I think that babcias are not fully responsible for "the cross war", not the "moherowe berety" since those two groups do not formally exist, but are part of a group of people who have little voice in contemporary Poland. Therefore such people would seek the church groups, Catholic Youth groups, Radio Maryja etc- who are all accommodating their need to be heard, since with the development democracy in Poland some groups were left behind for deferent reasons. Also, some of these people have spare time on their hands if they are retired and little money, or not enough money to still enjoy their retirement. Even if they do, they give it to their children, or grandchildren, instead of enjoying their retired life.

Also, other there are groups of people in Poland, who are still professionally active, but due to their luck of ability to make money in the new capitalist Poland are simply frustrated. Add high taxes, high costs of running the business, hight cost of living and you have a large number of dissapointed citizens, who see how their quality of life is decreasing.

I think it is less about the cross and more about the general dissatisfaction of some Polish citizens. I also think that part of the Polish society who turned back to church feels a sense of belonging, regardless of the obvious RCC attempts to manipulate this need to its own advantage.


well, they don't want to go there since they are still socially active and don't want to be separated from the society because they are old- being old is not a sentence is Poland, as I might say in is is some of the Western countries IMO.

Then you have a person like Bzibi, who thinks that RCC is untouchable and she is perfectly comfortable with refusing any discussion about it, since it is NOT her level of argument, even if her own church starts using the symbol of the cross in a political debate.

Haven't you confused "survived" with "caused"? Except for the last one, which I was think was the fault of the 5th Dimension.

You would not have any examples or proof of that statement, would you? Or you are just projecting for a dramatic effect?

- i.e. working against unity and what crucifix in Poland used to stand for.

they give it to their local church!!

the cross fight is all about money and power... very much simple it is...

It's not about money at all.

nacjonalista.pl/2010/05/09/jezus-krolem-polski.html
That is a nice one to get you started.
The previous speaker of the parliament, Marek Jurek, was pushing this idea, and not only him.
it is this kind of people who are the cross fanatics
Torquemada would have loved their mentality.

Well ... Maria is already Queen of Poland, isn't she?. So the idea is not very far fetched.

power and money - the same thing...

That is what I said:)


so what is it about, I want to understand.

As I said before


Plus babcias venting frustration and wanting to settle scores.

The ancient Romans also thought they were so 'modern' and cutting edge - eat, drink and be merry, and they got fat and flabby and were overrun by lean and mean barbarians. Is today's consumption-crazed, pleasure and entertainment-obsessed homo ludens really any different? Hitler's 1,000-year Reich and Stalin's 'wave of the future' also invoked 'modernty'. There is always some cetnury, so 21st is no argument. And in every century there are the mindless conformists that go with the flow and lap up whatever is being peddled and the thinking minority that sees through the cheap, superficial veneer. Which one are you?

Remember they were overrun after they adopted Christianity, not before.

Good job! Punkt dla tego pana!!!
But still I don't think babcias are about to announce Jesus as a Polish king any day soon.


I agree. What we need to understand more and more in our society is that freedom can indeed be exercised all the way into despair.