2ND MIRACLE OF THE VISTULA: youth mysteriously appear out of nowhere!

It may surprise you that some 60% of Poland's 18-24 year olds support PiS. Whether you like it or not! Read it and weep!

The 18-35 year olds who are out on the streets rather than sitting at home in villages are the ones who matter politically here. PiS must be weeping.

sure, when there are no evil people around - otherwise it's a nightmare

Source?

And unfortunately the PiS junta are around.


A straw poll among trainee nuns walking on foot from Szczebrzeszyn to a well known mega-statue in Świebodzin. Their answers were a bit hard to hear since at the time they were scourging themselves with a cat o' nine tails made from JK's cat.

The next generation of elitist snobs -- right up your alley. I'm a "salt of the earth" man myself.

How do you work that out? The 18-35s at the Polish pro-democracy rallies seem to be a very down to earth bunch of people. Educated, yes, snobs or elitists, no.

So why vast majority of them have no clue why they are there as it's demonstrated in dozens of videos online? They are there because they think they follow some sort of trend, a hipster fashion of starbucks.

No. The people who attend Polish pro-democracy rallies have a very clear idea why they are there.

yes, they don't like that PiS won democratic election and rather destabilise Poland then take it that PiS is in charge. Due to inspiration of so called opposition those are the guilty once - traitors and they should answer for treason. They're destroying whatever is left from democracy in Poland. If there is blood they on . their hand, I they should know it won't be one sided like in the 80'.

The young (and not so young) people attending the regular Polish pro-democracy rallies are there to defend democracy. They don't want the return to PiS-bis that Kaczynski etc (and his older, less-educated and often rural voters) seem to favour.

Once the ball starts rolling, it doesn't stop.

once the heads start rolling it won't stop there where post-commies believe it will.


Stop your possessive propaganda of hate, I like to debate with you as long as you keep that red BS in check.

That actually sounds seriously menacing. Certain political tendencies do tend to get aggressive when they don't get their way.


Hard to know what that phrase means. Did you see the pictures of 'demonstration outside Pan Posel Schetyna's house at the weekend. Not exactly a mass rally. About 20 people, all of them 50+ and bizarrely all of them fat. It looked like a Sunday ramble for obese UKippers.

Are you kidding me? a number of people on the street has nothing to do with anything. The crux of the matter is that regardless of all that hysteria, money from Soros and all that noise those who are protesting and those who support them are still very much tiny minority.


Exactly commies and all shades of left.

They are a lot less tiny than the crowd bussed in for Trump a few weeks ago.

He asked if people were ready to defend the west - he has his answer. Yes decent Poles are willing to take to the streets.

Though to be fair I think the State Department made a sensible intervention which showed PiS just how isolated they are.

Yes, naive Poles are willing to defend judiciary mafia - so be it - it's democracy after all

No such thing. The deceptive slogans could not conceal the fact that they were de facto in defence of the status quo of a clique of crooked has-beens and ex-commies.

Can I assume you mean assets?:)) As opposed to you though Ironside, I am a (previous) Polish 30 % taxpayer of 27 years standing, as well as an previous employer of 60 bodies, so I happen to think I have more of a voice than you. Care to dispute that logic?

I am not "fine" whichever party is in charge, because I remember the PRL well, when you could get the 3 o'clock knock on the door. I was there when the father in law got just that.

But you never experienced that, and you like authoritarian countries obviously - otherwise why are you in Norway? Did you hear the one about some areas of Norway being forbidden to have curtains in the windows so the neighbours can lodge an intervention for drinking too much? Do you like that kind of intrusion?

A huge number turning out every evening, in almost every city in the country, has everything to do with everything.


Yes. PiS want to be the only Party, except for fake allied parties under their influence, PRO-style. They are absolutely transparent about this.


Is that the best you can do?

Terlecki says they're going to have some hols and then put the revised proposals to the Sejm in 2 months, so it's very much game on! 6 weeks of realative peace, and then it all kicks off again, unless PIS magically learn to lose their misplaced arrogance in the meantime while drinking the pina-coladas.

It does seem strange to me that in an effort to eliminate corruption amongst some or all of the Judges, PIS have tried or have installed Judges who are PIS supporters or at the very least favour PIS ideology. This in itself is not something that would seem to me to give much confidence in creating an unbiased and independent group of Judges making decisions on legislation put forward by PIS. In nearly all other modern societies Judges are treated as completely independent and are elected not appointed. Yes there are still possibilities for corruption with Judges in other countries but there is regulation and checks, designed to weed out the corrupt ones. I am not sure what regulation and checks are in place with the Judges in Poland. Maybe PIS should go on fact finding missions to other countries to find out how their legal systems work in terms of regulating Judges, lawyers etc, and use a similar system in Poland. It is a tried and tested method and generally provides the best results.

My other point is there would appear to be some talk about PIS minister(s) wanting control over Judges so that in certain special situations they could discipline offending Judges. Judges in my view should be monitored and regulated by an independent body/commission who have experience of the legal process and not politicians who are not lawyers. There has to be a separation between the legal process and politics. With the best will in the world there is a difference between Judges who are trained professionals and politicians who come and go. In short politicians should distance themselves from the legal process otherwise it is open to accusations of potential manipulation and corruption which I thought is what PIS are trying to stamp out.

People in Poland do seem to smell a rat and it is no surprise that there are demonstrations, but not to worry it is just demonstrations....however if the PIS party are upset that their President has vetoed their proposals then maybe they need to re-elect a new President if that is possible...given what is happening it probably is possible. It is surprising that although PIS have a majority they still want to change the makeup of Judicial appointments when in fact they just need to talk to the body who represent Judges if one exists and agree on how 'corruption' can be regulated. Normal day to day wrong/ poor decisions etc by Judges should surely be monitored by an independent body who should have the powers to discipline.....it happens in other countries why not Poland?

Plenty of fallout today. According to Newsweek then Szydlo and a couple of others turned up at the Palace and told Duda that Jarek would give him an hour to change his mind.

As if that is not bad enough then Szydlo scheduled her autocue address for exactly the same time as Duda's - if people consider PiS to be basically decent how can they explain such an ignorant show of disrespect to the head of state ?

And in news that might interest Crow, it seems Czech and Slovakia are wondering if staying in Visegrad is worth it given the comedy show in Warsaw and Orban's own obsessions. Maybe Serbia and Russia could join and make up the numbers ?

Did you notice that TVPiS carried the speech of the puppet minister live and then ran the speech of the 'president' after that? The free media ran the first announced speech by the senior official first and then the spoiler speech by the junior.


Anybody who considers PiS to be basically decent, and everybody else too, know that to PIS the real head of state is the man who publicly refers to himself as the "real actual leader" of the puppet minister and the 'president'.

It mean that a person that really believes in a democracy wouldn't make any disparaging remarks about people just because they make a different political choices than such a person would have preferred. You (as we are talking about you) wouldn't neither constantly dwell about their age (ageism) their educations (elitism), rural areas ( well so African 'refugees' from rural areas should be shot at?).

You claim to be a Marxist or progressive. You claim that you are an open minded fellow, egalitarian and democratic in your approach to people and live.

I don't see it. I see a dude who is elitist, who hate poor, old, less educated people if they do not vote as he would like them to. A dude with a totalitarian main set that likes democracy only if the option HE supports have an upper hand.


Hey Doug I don't deny you a right to have your opinion or to voice. I only said that you have no dog in this fight and you're OK either way. Also you take a notice of issues and things that are a quite alien to most Poles. Those issues are not their everyday bread and butter. In a way those are abstract, ideological issues that doesn't affect a regular people at all.

An unaccountable and corrupt judiciary system on the other hand is a very real issue that effect regular Poles, hampers and harms them in number of ways.

So opposing betterment of a live of an average Pole in the name of some abstract ideological issues is a nasty thing to do that is foreign to the every concept of decency and a common sense.


That is not true. There been protesting for years and the number of people actually turning up is very few and far between. Mostly some strange element and people too old to work.

Only in few instances of their constant obstruction and denial they had some genuine support from a younger generation, abortion and now. Still some 30 000 for all the propaganda of hate, scaremongering and money and whipping up to the frenzy by the traitors in the parliament is not much. Is there a million of those that support them sit tight at home - I doubt it. If there is a million I'm pretty sure there is no another.

As for those who support the government there is no reason for them to rally. The have won at ballot boxes. If traitors from PO try something fishy they might be for a big surprise, bevosue even those who are not very found of PiS positively hate PO, all the system cronies and all they stand for.

Small wonder as you seemingly have no clue about Poland's contemporary political issues.


Not really. There is few countries where judges are elected. If you are talking about your American perspective that fine but you could just google some info about Europe first.


I don't have to do any better. Just a factual info you cannot even refute.

I'm an interfering busybody - but you know that:) We do need to be politically aware, and because 50 percent of Poles were too lazy to vote, we have this bitterness now. I heard somewhere for instance, that Opole is 93% for absolutely any candidate who runs against PIS. So society is going to be divided over this, and those 93% believe their freedoms are being taken away; freedoms that are only 38 years old. Good luck with imposing those reforms as far as they are concerned.

There are going to be problems on the streets, although Szydlo sneers, and PIS forbid it, if all this "reform" is not drastically repackaged. And, of course, in a democratic country, Ziobro would have been sacked yesterday.

The more I think about it, I believe that Duda just got sick of being downtrodden and turned on his masters.The possible reasons for Duda's thinking are well summarised here:

theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/25/why-suspicion-remains-over-polish-presidents-veto-of-contentious-laws

You may wish to tell that to some of the supporters of the PiS junta on here.


This is a bare-faced lie. Most of the people who've turned out to oppose the coup are first time protestors aged between 25 and 40.

But, you aren't interested in truth, just propaganda...

perhaps he just didnt want to go down(by many) as the man who killed democracy. also, one day he will go back to krakow and have to live among his law friends (many of whom also were presumably not in favor). also ms duda may not wish to spend the rest of her life like melania trump, reviled by many.

Ironside.....My question was really directed at 'independence' from politics rather than the method of selection and yes Judges in the UK are appointed but through a selection process..(I can't speak for the USA as I am not American)...and are basically appointed on merit to instil public confidence and accountability. It all centres around impartiality and independence from central government and from undue pressure from business, the media and politicians. This really is what is at the heart of most other democratic countries.

Bump.
One can see what Polonious is doing here. He starts one thread, and then when he doesn't like the way the discussion is going (as in pertinent points from jon, Braveheart etc against PIS) he starts a myriad of other threads to have another crack at the propaganda, and to bury this thread.

Not that it's anything to do with me. Just visiting.