Lech Walesa is not a democrat and this statement proves it.

No wonder he has such admiration for Thatcher.

when Solidarity – one of the unions who played a key role in the 1989 uprisings – recently protested against the government's raising of the pension threshold from 65 to 67 years, its co-founder Lech Walesa said in an interview that he'd have liked to have seen the police face down the demonstrators. Such robust protests were legitimate if directed against a dictatorship, he said, but couldn't be tolerated in a modern democracy.

Don't you have more interesting things to do than sitting on the forum all day and spread rubbish? You are simply boring and you contribute significantly that this forum has less and less users!

I'm just keeping up to date. The article is in yesterday's guardian, love you.

guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/24/poland-leftwing-voices-silenced

youtube.com/watch?v=_bJwqKS64Bs

Wałęsa actually said the police should use batons on union members. He is self-righteous buffoon who also said that criticizing him is a crime.

A paid snitch for SB in the 70's, he later become the mythical leader of the free union. He is respected by those who like myths, mostly outside Poland.

Still waiting for you to post proof of that.


And while he was leading that free trade union, you yourself were working for the people who planned to very literally destroy Poland, with nuclear bombs. Or is that just a myth?

I'm not saying that you are the only one who makes the reading of this forum an increasingly boring exercise. There are more of you who think that the same old clashes may really interest anyone else than the persons directly involved.

Maybe the Guardian still takes some interest in Lech Wałęsa. But in present-day Poland, no one really cares for what he says or what he does. These days, his wife Danuta attracts a far larger audience than her famous husband. The actress and producer Krystyna Janda has recently even staged a play "Danuta W." based on Danuta Wałęsa's book "Secrets and dreams" (Marzenia i tajemnice), which had its Gdańsk premiere on 11th of October and its Warsaw premiere the following day.

Here's Krystyna Janda, one of the best Polish actresses, IMHO.

Actually I know nobody who cares for him anymore.
He is a classic example of a hero who did not know where to stop. If he would not have run for president, he still would be held in high esteem.

But nobody can argue that he played a decisive role in post-1980 Poland, whatever his shortcomings.

like Robert Mugabe


so who else?


so who is this thread directly involved with?

You are completely sick. Mugabe is an African dictator. Living in trees when we built cathedrals. Wałęsa jumped literally the fence and changed Polish history. He only did not know where to stop. That is his enduring weakness

And you actually believe that socialist rag? Apart from North Korea (Where they are starving) nobody believes in communism any more and if you are still waiting for your free apartment

in the town centre, you are going to be sadly disappointed. Its dictatorships or nothing now, as the EU is showing us so well.

Hey, you'd like to know, but I won't tell you! Those I'm talking about are actually in this thread or anywhere else on the PF fora. Try to guess their names yourself - I'm sure you'll succeed in the same way as Lech Wałęsa did when he jumped the fence of the Lenin shipyard in Gdańsk!!!

I didn't know you were a racist. Africans never lived in trees; monkeys do. Is that what you mean?
btw people in China and India (as well as parts of Africa) had highly developed societies when we Europeans were painting ourselves blue and eating berries.

Ok man, I hear you.


Yea, I was going to make this point. He was being racist with his rant.

Milky, dear, are you playing an old trick on me? You've simply quoted part of my statement. Your proper quote - in which my answer lies - should have been:


And then I said: "Try to jump the fence yourself". Good Lord, why do you want me to jump the fence for you? I am not Lech Wałęsa to jump fences for you or for the good of the country.

jump off a cliff for all I care.


that's what you said, I know I'm included but thanks for pointing out the others.

That was meant sarcastically. Besides as I remember Zimbabwe had a well-developedcivilization as well in ancient times.
Still comparing Wałęsa to Mugabe is a bridge too far I think.

Not really a bridge too far, more like a three-week boat journey too far. Anybody who compares Walesa to Mugabe is just declaring that they're an utter moron.

Mugabe is a nutbag in land were dictators are the norm, he was a hero prior to 1980's and for many throughout the 90's and then turned out to be narcissistic spineless bloodthirsty thug. In a European context Walesa was a hero and then turned out to be a pr1ck, sort of like Joe the Plummer becoming president

youtube.com/watch?v=PUvwKVvp3-o
All they have in common, is their coming from something that was initially good and then....
The usual cycle, that's why I showed the footage.
youtube.com/watch?v=_bJwqKS64Bs


Try explaining that to an African, it sounded like a racist rant to me.
Also Walese was a big admirer of Thatcher, the one who backed a Chilean who was a narcissistic spineless bloodthirsty thug so....



oh!! and the rest of the fine article

Comment is free

Poland's leftwing voices are being silenced

The sacking of Przekrój's left-leaning editors is the latest in a narrowing of public debate to the neoliberal viewpoint

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Agata Pyzik
Agata Pyzik
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 24 October 2012 17.00 BST

Solidarity trade union demontsration in the centre of Wroclaw
Solidarity members dressed as prisoners demonstrate in Wroclaw, Poland, last year. Photograph: Agencja Gazeta/Reuters

After 1989, eastern Europe was supposed to join the club of so-called "normal countries". From now on, we were told, there would be free speech, a free press and free debate, all prevented during the years of communist oppression. But in practice, this free liberal debate is anything but.

These days, whenever someone in the post-communist countries of eastern Europe tries to criticise the changes that their country have undergone, the tendency is to ridicule, or worse, silence them. We're all middle class now, we are told. Start your own little enterprises, consume and shut up. Those trying to discuss a solution to the current crisis other than the orthodox austerity measures is quickly dismissed.

...

You'll be waiting a long time, especially as the IPN has declared that he is innocent. Then again, our traitorous friend knows best - he was busy taking part in plans to destroy Poland while Walesa was saving Poland.

The concept of a "democracy" is an outrageous absurdity to begin with. It's so self-evidently ridiculous, I sometimes have trouble understanding how people see merit in this. Then I remember that they just don't. They're brainwashed/conditioned to regard it highly.

Things like this do good to remind one that all that modernism stuff is just ********. We're living the intellectual dark ages. In a way, it's worse than many other periods of civilization because there has never been such a widespread and highly accepted, approved and appreciated consensus on a broken system among the common men before.

Of course there are many different versions of democracy. What kind Poland has I don't know. From the posts on this forum it appears to be dominated by a ruling elite. But what is essential to democracy is consensus. Something you don't get with other forms of government.

Are you familiar with Ha Joon Chang?

He pointed out that it's contradictory that the developed world promotes democracy in the developing world, when the developed world was actually quite undemocratic during the period in which they were modernising and advancing industrially. In fact, Germany, Britain, and America were more undemocratic than the democratic Third World today during the period of their rise.

A national committee devoted to fighting hate speech and other crimes in Poland has filed a complaint with prosecutors in Gdansk accusing Lech Walesa of promoting a "propaganda of hate against a sexual minority", after the Nobel peace prize-winner said gay people had no right to a prominent role in politics.

Walesa said in a television interview on Friday that he believed gay people had no right to sit on the front benches in parliament and, if there at all, should sit in the back "or even behind a wall".

"They have to know that they are a minority and adjust to smaller things, and not rise to the greatest heights," he told the private broadcaster TVN during a discussion of gay rights. "A minority should not impose itself on the majority."

Walesa, Poland's first democratic-era president, is a deeply conservative Roman Catholic

Bit of a pity that Lech didn't remember those words while he was president of Poland.